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User friendly non specialist setup guide
#1
I REALLY want to get a RPi with an attached USB SSD with my music files on it up and running connected by RCA outs on the HiFiBerry DAC+, controlled from Android phone.

Surely in 2020 this is possible without having to be a network guru or computer programmer!!!

So......

Could someone, preferably the developers please write a set up and user guide that does not assume one is a network expert or advanced computer user.

I am an average computer user.
I have built (plugged together!) a Pi with the HiFiberry DAC+.
I can install and run lots of software on PC but I do NOT know all the network jargon nor how networks work.
The setup instructions are totally inadequate for an average user.
On the http://moodeaudio.org main web page it says to download the image and install it on a SD card but it doesn't even tell me what size SD card I need!!!
The setup guide is linked to a texted based file on GitHub(?) whatever that is; why not have friendly laid out setup instructions on the main website?

The developers of these apps/programs need to realise that a lot of users are not network experts or advanced computer users but still want to use these and need clear jargon free instructions that do not assume advanced knowledge.

For example right from the start;

"NOTE: Use http://moode, moode.local or IP address, whichever works on your network.
Typically Android OS will only work with IP address. (What is this referring to)
- SSH login user: pi, pwd: moodeaudio (What does this mean, what is SSH?)
- Preface commands requiring root permission with sudo (What??!?!?!?)
- Access Point (AP) mode:
  (a) IP address: 172.24.1.1
  (b) SSID: Moode
  © Password: moodeaudio
  (d) Channel: 6
(I don't know how or when to use this information)
- AP mode starts automatically when:
  (a) WiFi SSID is set to 'None' in Network config and there is no Ethernet connection (?)
  (b) WiFi SSID is defined but no IP address was assigned by DHCP. This typically
  occurs when connection to the SSID fails. (What is DHCP?)
- Default Samba shares are NAS, Playlists, Radio, and SDCard (What is SAMBA?)
- Each USB disk will also have a Samba share named after its Disk Label
(When I am supposed to need all the above)

Is there really any need for this to be so elitist, only for network experts or advanced computer users.




Thanks.
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#2
(06-08-2020, 03:05 AM)Kihon Wrote: I REALLY want to get a RPi with an attached USB SSD with my music files on it up and running connected by RCA outs on the HiFiBerry DAC+, controlled from Android phone.

Surely in 2020 this is possible without having to be a network guru or computer programmer!!!

So......

Could someone, preferably the developers please write a set up and user guide that does not assume one is a network expert or advanced computer user.

I am an average computer user.
I have built (plugged together!) a Pi with the HiFiberry DAC+.
I can install and run lots of software on PC but I do NOT know all the network jargon nor how networks work.
The setup instructions are totally inadequate for an average user.
On the http://moodeaudio.org main web page it says to download the image and install it on a SD card but it doesn't even tell me what size SD card I need!!!
The setup guide is linked to a texted based file on GitHub(?) whatever that is; why not have friendly laid out setup instructions on the main website?

The developers of these apps/programs need to realise that a lot of users are not network experts or advanced computer users but still want to use these and need clear jargon free instructions that do not assume advanced knowledge.

For example right from the start;

"NOTE: Use http://moode, moode.local or IP address, whichever works on your network.
Typically Android OS will only work with IP address. (What is this referring to)
- SSH login user: pi, pwd: moodeaudio (What does this mean, what is SSH?)
- Preface commands requiring root permission with sudo (What??!?!?!?)
- Access Point (AP) mode:
  (a) IP address: 172.24.1.1
  (b) SSID: Moode
  © Password: moodeaudio
  (d) Channel: 6
(I don't know how or when to use this information)
- AP mode starts automatically when:
  (a) WiFi SSID is set to 'None' in Network config and there is no Ethernet connection (?)
  (b) WiFi SSID is defined but no IP address was assigned by DHCP. This typically
  occurs when connection to the SSID fails. (What is DHCP?)
- Default Samba shares are NAS, Playlists, Radio, and SDCard (What is SAMBA?)
- Each USB disk will also have a Samba share named after its Disk Label
(When I am supposed to need all the above)

Is there really any need for this to be so elitist, only for network experts or advanced computer users.




Thanks.

I don't think I've ever seen a more negative post on this entire forum. I can certainly help you, but why would I with the attitude displayed? No one owes you anything, maybe try to use that wonderful Google tool to research some of these terms you are not familiar with (hint: they are not expert or advanced level "jargon" at all).
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#3
In reply to myself to give you an idea of how I am approaching this here is what I have done as best I can with the setup guide.

I have Raspberry Pi 3+ with a HiFiBerry DAC+ board attached and the wall wart power supply. Music in on a attached by USB 250GB HDD.
I have downloaded the MoodeAudio ISO image file and have written it to a 16GB MicroSD card. I have put the SD card in the slot in the Pi and plugged in the power supply. The red led on the Pi lights and the HDD light blinks as if it is being accessed.

At this point I am lost and do not know how to connect to the hardware by wifi, ethernet, with a phone or from my PC???!!!!???

I have guessed by looking at the setup that this has something to do with connecting but I do not know what Access Point mode is nor what "WiFi adapter" I should be using? I am assuming the WiFi adapter is on the Raspberry Pi board?

- Access Point (AP) mode
a) Insert WiFi adapter that supports AP mode
b) Power on
c) Join network SSID=Moode, pwd=moodeaudio
d) http://moode.local or http://172.24.1.1

How do I "Join network", what network?

I tried typing in both http://moode.local or http://172.24.1.1 in my browser (Opera) on PC and in my Android phone browser (Dolphin) but I get a "This site can’t be reached" message.
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#4
In this time and age the abundance of news, general and specific resources and technology is prevalent so people have learned to use computers to their advantage for seeking information on what is interesting and useful for them; learning is a lifetime exercise which has started upon leaving the mother's womb.

What stops you to use your favourite Web search engine for finding information? What is a 'search engine'? Here's a lifeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_search_engine
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#5
(06-08-2020, 04:47 AM)CallMeMike Wrote: In this time and age the abundance of news, general and specific resources and technology is prevalent so people have learned to use computers to their advantage for seeking information on what is interesting and useful for them; learning is a lifetime exercise which has started upon leaving the mother's womb.

What stops you to use your favourite Web search engine for finding information? What is a 'search engine'? Here's a lifeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_search_engine

Thanks that's very helpful and exactly the attitude I am talking about.
Not everyone can make sense of the type of language and jargon used to explain these things, however I am CERTAIN that this could be explain in a much clear and simpler way if someone wanted to and was sensitive to non advanced users

I have been searching the internet for 4 hours now trying to get this to work.
I have managed to work out to connect the Pi physically to my router by an Ethernet cable.
I typed in the address http://moode.local and the UI came up.
I choose the HIFiBerry DAC+ from the drop down list to set up my audio device and it requested I restart.
I restarted and can now no longer connect to the Pi from my browser on the PC with the ethernet cable plugged in.
LOST AGAIN!

Thanks for your help.
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#6
MoOde is a small hobbiest project, like 1000s of similar projects it does rely on people having basic knowledge and the ability to self help to a degree.
If you have this level of difficulty I think you need someone to do it for you, I don't mean this as an insult, I get people to service my car, do even minor plumbing jobs, I have no knowledge there at all, I know my limitations.
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#7
@Kihon

It sounds like you are nearly there. Have you tried starting again after powering down completely?

Edit: I do understand your frustration with the Setup Guide. The mention of ssh right at the beginning is enough to intimidate quite a few, and the use of ssh is not even an essential part of setting up.
It's all very well being advised to use a search engine but that can often turn up vast amounts of information that is not particularly relevant to the case in hand. And many Moode users do not have English as their first language.
I was pretty much at your level of knowledge when I started with the RPi (well we all were once weren't we?). Progress slowly, research as much as you can, and ask for help when necessary - that was the way to go for me.
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#8
(06-08-2020, 05:23 AM)Kihon Wrote: I am CERTAIN that this could be explain in a much clear and simpler way if someone wanted to and was sensitive to non advanced users
To some degree you are right, this can, and even is, made easier all the time.  There are a myriad of "plug and play" network music streamers to be had that come with abundant instructions and are designed specifically for ease of use my the non technically minded.  Of course all that user friendliness comes at a cost. One price you pay is in the form of more money to buy in, you need hundreds of pounds instead of tens. Another price is lack of customisation, you can't add bits to make them work like you want, you can't rewrite the code to remove an annoying obstacle, you can't choose to build your own interface that suits your own desires and needs.
You have chosen to buy a computer designed for hobbyists and those wanting to learn fundamental computing principles, attached a device designed by audio nerds who enjoy tinkering, and then put software on it that is developed by a group of talented enthusiasts, it will need some work on your part.

Having said that, you also have access to the combined wisdom of those talented enthusiasts through this forum and if you are willing to learn, it can be rewarding.

I see that you have have got as far as getting the UI up on a PC when the Pi is connected to your router via an Ethernet cable, that is probably the best set up to begin with for someone starting where you are.
You will always be able to get to http://moode.local if there is a working moOde installation on you local network (local network is anything attached, by cable or wifi, to your router, it can be more than that but these purposes that definition will do).  The fact that you did get the interface and now do not suggests that the network is OK, but that something is amiss with your device.  The first thing to check is that it did actually restart and not just shut down.  To do that simply turn off the power to your Pi (just pull the plug out, it won't hurt anything).  Then make sure that you have your ethernet cable connected to your Pi and the router, and that your PC is connected to the router too (by cable or wifi).  Then plug the Pi back into the power, you will see the activity lights on the Pi flashing quite a bit, and the lights on both ends of the Ethernet connection should flash also.  Once they all calm down a bit, try the moode.local address from you PC again.  Chances are you will see the UI again and can continue to configure things.  If you don't see the UI try again in a minute or two, and remember to try a "refresh" in the browser just in case (press "F5" is the best way).

Let me know how that goes and I'll see if I can help you with the next steps.
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#9
Thread moved from Feedback to the Support section
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#10
(06-08-2020, 01:16 PM)the_bertrum Wrote:
(06-08-2020, 05:23 AM)Kihon Wrote: I am CERTAIN that this could be explain in a much clear and simpler way if someone wanted to and was sensitive to non advanced users
To some degree you are right, this can, and even is, made easier all the time.  There are a myriad of "plug and play" network music streamers to be had that come with abundant instructions and are designed specifically for ease of use my the non technically minded.  Of course all that user friendliness comes at a cost. One price you pay is in the form of more money to buy in, you need hundreds of pounds instead of tens. Another price is lack of customisation, you can't add bits to make them work like you want, you can't rewrite the code to remove an annoying obstacle, you can't choose to build your own interface that suits your own desires and needs.
You have chosen to buy a computer designed for hobbyists and those wanting to learn fundamental computing principles, attached a device designed by audio nerds who enjoy tinkering, and then put software on it that is developed by a group of talented enthusiasts, it will need some work on your part.

Having said that, you also have access to the combined wisdom of those talented enthusiasts through this forum and if you are willing to learn, it can be rewarding.

I see that you have have got as far as getting the UI up on a PC when the Pi is connected to your router via an Ethernet cable, that is probably the best set up to begin with for someone starting where you are.
You will always be able to get to http://moode.local if there is a working moOde installation on you local network (local network is anything attached, by cable or wifi, to your router, it can be more than that but these purposes that definition will do).  The fact that you did get the interface and now do not suggests that the network is OK, but that something is amiss with your device.  The first thing to check is that it did actually restart and not just shut down.  To do that simply turn off the power to your Pi (just pull the plug out, it won't hurt anything).  Then make sure that you have your ethernet cable connected to your Pi and the router, and that your PC is connected to the router too (by cable or wifi).  Then plug the Pi back into the power, you will see the activity lights on the Pi flashing quite a bit, and the lights on both ends of the Ethernet connection should flash also.  Once they all calm down a bit, try the moode.local address from you PC again.  Chances are you will see the UI again and can continue to configure things.  If you don't see the UI try again in a minute or two, and remember to try a "refresh" in the browser just in case (press "F5" is the best way).

Let me know how that goes and I'll see if I can help you with the next steps.
 
Thanks for your help. I did manage to get this working with a lot of effort and messing around. Able to control it from my phone/tablet etc but like I said this could be made a lot easier for non techy people. I am about to post my process as I updated moode player 2 days ago and it 'broke' it so had to go through the whole install process again.
Thanks again for your considered input.
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