Pi 4b and dac recommendation

[blarg]

I’ve been running moode on a RPi 3b with a hifiberry DAC+ pro with separate power for several years and was thinking of upgrading to an RPi 4b just because.

At the time an I2S hat with its own power supply was the way to go and I’ve been happy with it.  I’m running through an older Marantz analog stereo amp with no digital inputs (from when they were still made in Japan) and a decent set of Polk tower speakers with good speaker wire.  My music library is served from a NAS.  It’s by no means an extravagant system but it’s nicer than your average dorm room setup.

I know I’m probably not gaining anything by moving to a Pi4b…just needed another pi for a project so I figured why not.  I MAY end up running Homebridge on it if I can get moode and Homebridge to run on the same device….but ultimately since moode occasionally requires a re-image maybe not.

It’s really hard to find good recent info on audio setups though.  I’ve read that USB DACs are now better than hats, and I’ve read that they’re not.  I’ve read that there are DACs that don’t require an LPS and I’ve read that you still need a decent low noise power supply.

So….given what I currently have and that I’m not looking to spend thousands (or more than I could buy a better non pi-based streaming device for) what would be an upgrade in sound from what I have?

I’ve read that the Allo Boss2 is pretty nice, but is it better than a Hifiberry dac+ pro?  Is there something else I should look at?

[stevoknevo]

I’ve been running moode on a RPi 3b with a hifiberry DAC+ pro with separate power for several years and was thinking of upgrading to an RPi 4b just because.

At the time an I2S hat with its own power supply was the way to go and I’ve been happy with it.  I’m running through an older Marantz analog stereo amp with no digital inputs (from when they were still made in Japan) and a decent set of Polk tower speakers with good speaker wire.  My music library is served from a NAS.  It’s by no means an extravagant system but it’s nicer than your average dorm room setup.

I know I’m probably not gaining anything by moving to a Pi4b…just needed another pi for a project so I figured why not.  I MAY end up running Homebridge on it if I can get moode and Homebridge to run on the same device….but ultimately since moode occasionally requires a re-image maybe not.

It’s really hard to find good recent info on audio setups though.  I’ve read that USB DACs are now better than hats, and I’ve read that they’re not.  I’ve read that there are DACs that don’t require an LPS and I’ve read that you still need a decent low noise power supply.

So….given what I currently have and that I’m not looking to spend thousands (or more than I could buy a better non pi-based streaming device for) what would be an upgrade in sound from what I have?

I’ve read that the Allo Boss2 is pretty nice, but is it better than a Hifiberry dac+ pro?  Is there something else I should look at?

I requested a Pi4b and an Allo Boss v1.2 for a significant birthday in September, mainly to see if I could get it to do what I wanted for future health needs, and I could - It was running into an Anthem MRX500 AVR then PMC GB1 speakers - I read so many positive reviews of the Topping E30, and I found one open box on Ebay for £120, so I bought it and sold the Boss. 99% of the time it streams from Qobuz using BubbleUPnP on my phone, or BBC 6 music via the radio library on moOde, and occasionally local files from a USB stick plugged into the rear of the Pi - sounds absolutely fantastic to my tinnitus-riddled old ears, a big jump over the Boss (which I really enjoyed for the 2-3 months I used it) I had some spare cash and thought my amp/speakers deserved to see what they could do with a better signal, had to remove my ancient paradigm sub from the set-up as there was just too much bass at even tiny amounts of gain on the sub! And it was a big room at 19.5' x 18.5' x 10.25' with compact floorstanders, no room correction and the AVR was essentially in pass through mode, speakers and seating position optimised to the room, Pi4 powered by a USB C/PD charger I had, and the E30 I either run from a powerbank or run it from the USB A socket on the Pi charger as the powerbank doesn't last as long as I'd prefer - sounds fantastic across a wide range of genres, I'm in no rush to change any of it but I am going to buy a cheap LPS as I saw this one recommended in a recent post on here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811138687.html

The Boss v2 had just gone on sale but there was virtually zero mention of it online, so I paid the extra £20 based on the mass positivity for the E30 - I moved house two weeks ago and still need to set everything up properly, and I had planned to keep it a bare-bones, but I'm going to test my iMac and old Denon SACD player through the E30 and see what it does with them - a Pi4 and a Topping E30 is a proper bargain for the money, more flexible due to the inputs too, depending on your needs of course, but yours sound similar mine.

Only gripes are the display is too bright on it's lowest setting and you can't turn it off, and the range of the remote seems very narrow - no big deal for me as I'm using it as a DAC and not a pre, and I'm not having to change inputs as only the Pi is feeding it.

[Miss Sissy Princess]

The Topping E30 is a good choice, but for a little less money, the Topping D10s is also superb -- it should be audibly identical. One advantage of the D10s is that it is USB-powered -- one USB cable in, stereo pair of RCA cables out.

If you need the preamp capability and the remote control of the E30, it's a great unit. If you don't, I'd recommend the D10s.

[Gekel]

It’s really hard to find good recent info on audio setups though.  I’ve read that USB DACs are now better than hats, and I’ve read that they’re not.  I’ve read that there are DACs that don’t require an LPS and I’ve read that you still need a decent low noise power supply.

So….given what I currently have and that I’m not looking to spend thousands (or more than I could buy a better non pi-based streaming device for) what would be an upgrade in sound from what I have?

I’ve read that the Allo Boss2 is pretty nice, but is it better than a Hifiberry dac+ pro?  Is there something else I should look at?

Let's start with the LPS: "It is clear that whether you use the USB power, or the supplied switching power supply, there is absolutely no audible improvement in the output of the DAC with linear power supplies."

source: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...dacs.7021/

so don't waste money on a LPS.

And then about the DAC: Allo is good, but check for yourself: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ussion.10/

Personally I have a Topping DX3 pro which is great, one from FxAudio with good sound but the display is already broken, and then the Cambridge Audio CXA61 I use on the main hifi system. All of them are fired by pi4/Moode.

pi4 1GB is normally enough, I would go with the 2GB version to have some additioanl capacity and then just run Moode on an external SSD attached to the pi.

[blarg]

It’s really hard to find good recent info on audio setups though.  I’ve read that USB DACs are now better than hats, and I’ve read that they’re not.  I’ve read that there are DACs that don’t require an LPS and I’ve read that you still need a decent low noise power supply.

So….given what I currently have and that I’m not looking to spend thousands (or more than I could buy a better non pi-based streaming device for) what would be an upgrade in sound from what I have?

I’ve read that the Allo Boss2 is pretty nice, but is it better than a Hifiberry dac+ pro?  Is there something else I should look at?

Let's start with the LPS: "It is clear that whether you use the USB power, or the supplied switching power supply, there is absolutely no audible improvement in the output of the DAC with linear power supplies."

source: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...dacs.7021/

so don't waste money on a LPS.

And then about the DAC: Allo is good, but check for yourself: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ussion.10/

Personally I have a Topping DX3 pro which is great, one from FxAudio with good sound but the display is already broken, and then the Cambridge Audio CXA61 I use on the main hifi system. All of them are fired by pi4/Moode.

pi4 1GB is normally enough, I would go with the 2GB version to have some additioanl capacity and then just run Moode on an external SSD attached to the pi.

When comparing 40-pin HAT DACs to the new crop of USB ones, is one better than the other?  Last time I looked into it the HATs were preferred and gave superior performance.  It looks like this may have changed and the USB DACs are now better?  

I was looking at the Topping D10 as I can’t imagine what I would need a remote control for - I just use the Moode web UI with constant signal output and I have an IR blaster to control the volume directly on my amp.

[jonners]

@stevoknevo
The maximum current of that LPS is specified as 1.5A. If you are planning to supply the RPi4 with it, that's not enough!

[Gekel]

@stevoknevo
The maximum current of that LPS is specified as 1.5A. If you are planning to supply the RPi4 with it, that's not enough!

Beside not needing a LPS a pi4 with SSD attached and running on both connectors (wifi and ethernet) active draws around 1A total. I cut one of the connections and now I am at around 900mA.

However I suggest to buy a rock solid and higher quality PSU and not any cheap Chinese stuff. You might burn down the house if it overheats without shutting down. In Europe Leicke offers high quality PSUs.

[Gekel]

It’s really hard to find good recent info on audio setups though.  I’ve read that USB DACs are now better than hats, and I’ve read that they’re not.  I’ve read that there are DACs that don’t require an LPS and I’ve read that you still need a decent low noise power supply.

So….given what I currently have and that I’m not looking to spend thousands (or more than I could buy a better non pi-based streaming device for) what would be an upgrade in sound from what I have?

I’ve read that the Allo Boss2 is pretty nice, but is it better than a Hifiberry dac+ pro?  Is there something else I should look at?

Let's start with the LPS: "It is clear that whether you use the USB power, or the supplied switching power supply, there is absolutely no audible improvement in the output of the DAC with linear power supplies."

source: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...dacs.7021/

so don't waste money on a LPS.

And then about the DAC: Allo is good, but check for yourself: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...ussion.10/

Personally I have a Topping DX3 pro which is great, one from FxAudio with good sound but the display is already broken, and then the Cambridge Audio CXA61 I use on the main hifi system. All of them are fired by pi4/Moode.

pi4 1GB is normally enough, I would go with the 2GB version to have some additioanl capacity and then just run Moode on an external SSD attached to the pi.

When comparing 40-pin HAT DACs to the new crop of USB ones, is one better than the other?  Last time I looked into it the HATs were preferred and gave superior performance.  It looks like this may have changed and the USB DACs are now better?  

I was looking at the Topping D10 as I can’t imagine what I would need a remote control for - I just use the Moode web UI with constant signal output and I have an IR blaster to control the volume directly on my amp.

I don't have such a 40 pin hat, so I can't really compare the output of such a device with the DACs I have. What I would check is what  chip used to transform the digital input into an audio signal and look around for a newer/higher quality one. Maybe the easiest way is to register at ASR and ask those guys about their opinion. 

On the other side, the Topping D10 looks good, and according to ASR it is a well designed device: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...-dac.2470/

[stevoknevo]

@stevoknevo
The maximum current of that LPS is specified as 1.5A. If you are planning to supply the RPi4 with it, that's not enough!

It was solely for the DAC, jonners - it's a fairly cheap experiment to try as I do notice a slight improvement when it's running from the powerbank, but not enough that I want to charge it every day (and yes I should buy another one and swap them over) I'm planning to buy a couple of small monoblocks from the likes of Temple Audio and attach them with the DAC and Pi to the back of one of the speakers for a 'council' pair of actives, so I don't want to be swapping PB's out every day for that. I'd be better looking at something to power Pi & Dac - any suggestions?

(apologies for the hijack, blarg...)

[Miss Sissy Princess]

When comparing 40-pin HAT DACs to the new crop of USB ones, is one better than the other?  Last time I looked into it the HATs were preferred and gave superior performance.  It looks like this may have changed and the USB DACs are now better?  

I was looking at the Topping D10 as I can’t imagine what I would need a remote control for - I just use the Moode web UI with constant signal output and I have an IR blaster to control the volume directly on my amp.

I don't have such a 40 pin hat, so I can't really compare the output of such a device with the DACs I have. What I would check is what  chip used to transform the digital input into an audio signal and look around for a newer/higher quality one. Maybe the easiest way is to register at ASR and ask those guys about their opinion. 

On the other side, the Topping D10 looks good, and according to ASR it is a well designed device: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...-dac.2470/

Just to be clear, the Topping D10 has been discontinued and replaced by the Topping D10s, which significantly outperforms the earlier D10:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum...iew.14859/

If you really have your heart set on a Topping D10, I'll happily trade you mine for a Topping D10s.