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Article in "ARTIST" sort
#1
Hello,

how to make sure that the tag "ARTIST" are sorted with the article

for example:
The Dave Brubeck Quartet

and not:
Dave Brubeck Quartet



Amitiés
Lionel
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#2
The code block that performs the sort on Artists would have to be modified.

It was my understanding that removing the articles [a, and, the] from Artist and Album names when sorting is the preferred approach.

-Tim
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#3
(04-07-2019, 01:00 AM)Tim Curtis Wrote: The code block that performs the sort on Artists would have to be modified.

It was my understanding that removing the articles [a, and, the] from Artist and Album names when sorting is the preferred approach.

-Tim

Good evening, Tim,

that's your opinion and I respect it.

but too bad for me, it's a detail, but an important detail for me

some other software offers the option
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#4
Hi,

It's not my opinion. I received quite of bit of feedback in the past from users that recommended that articles should not be factored into the sorts.

Suggesting that it should be optional is a reasonable request and if I receive more requests for it then I'll add to the TODO list :-)
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#5
(04-07-2019, 03:00 AM)Tim Curtis Wrote: It's not my opinion. I received quite of bit of feedback in the past from users that recommended that articles should not be factored into the sorts.

Suggesting that it should be optional is a reasonable request and if I receive more requests for it then I'll add to the TODO list :-)

It’s the right thing to do 99% of the time, otherwise you’re basically just creating a secondary alphabetical index under “the”. For folder view that might not be desirable as it won’t match the directory structure (I’m not a folder view guy though so that’s just a guess). The right thing to do for the library views (tag & album cover) is probably to use the sort order (or whatever it’s called) tag so people can edit their metadata to do what they want rather than have a blanket on/off switch. Well, if mpd supports that tag, and there wasn’t any real perf impact.
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#6
We have a PR on moOde Github regarding Album Sort and it contains some discussion on using the albumsort and artistsort tags if they are populated instead of album and artist Thats actually an easy enhancement and its planned for > moOde 5.0.

The other discussion is how to better handle articles in the sorts. Currently the English articles [a, and, the] are not factored into the sorts which for example results in an album named "The Beatles" sorting into the B's or an artist named "The Allman Brothers Band" sorting into the A's or a radio station named "The Jazz Groove" sorting into the J's. As you point out 99% of the time this is the way to do it.

Some enhancements to article filtering could include:

1) user defined article list (could specify non-English articles)
2) turn off the filter (blank article list)

We'll have to see how the TODO list shapes up for post moOde 5 ...

-Tim
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#7
I think if an album has the album sort tag then it’d be better to exclude it from the article removal somehow, that way we always do the right thing 99% of the time and people who want different can fine tune with tags, but prob best to table this for now and see where we’re at post 5.0 and merging that code.
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#8
thank you all, for your interventions

I remain surprised that this simple choice given, are so difficult

I wonder where this 99% figure comes from!?

all the other players (Pioneer, Marantz, Cambridge) in our showroom sort the Artists correctly, and none of them propose to delete the "The"!

we thought it was fun to put a Raspberry in the lot.....

Amitiés à tous
Lionel

PS: 
Attached, a Raspberry in action


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
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#9
(04-08-2019, 01:37 AM)leglubert Wrote: thank you all, for your interventions

I remain surprised that this simple choice given, are so difficult

I wonder where this 99% figure comes from!?

all the other players (Pioneer, Marantz, Cambridge) in our showroom sort the Artists correctly, and none of them propose to delete the "The"!

we thought it was fun to put a Raspberry in the lot.....

Amitiés à tous
Lionel

PS: 
Attached, a Raspberry in action

Sorting correctly in this context means that the results delivered are the most relevant. As so many bands preface their name with “the” it loses value as a differentiator and as previously said it becomes a secondary alphabetical index under the t’s. That various embedded systems don’t employ a smarter sort isn’t representative of best practice but rather ease of implementation. If you look at other computer based players you’ll usually find the sort employed is smarter than strictly alphabetical because it’s a relatively simple way to improve user experience by making it easier to find the artist or album they’re looking for. There’s a limit to what you can reasonably do in software though which is where the album sort tag we discussed comes in, take your example: The Dave Brubeck Quartet. While most people would mentally simplify it as a category of music by Dave Brubeck, people sometimes like to list things like artists by last name first so that rather than filing it with the t’s or d’s someone might instead like to file it under the b’s.

Discarding (or not) articles was actually an option in moode previously but was removed at some point without any other comment that I’ve seen (your message is actually the first time I noticed it missing). I think the album sort situation above is useful enough that it’ll happen and enable what you want and in a way that’ll enable even more control of how the library is presented.
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#10
+1

Most of the major audio player applications offer "Ignore Articles" as an option in their sorts. Its mostly defaulted to "Yes".

I'm guessing that UPnP/DLNA systems is where there might not even be the option. I recall some discussion in the Asset UPnP Forum about "Ignore Articles" and it sounded like users were asking for the option.

moOde is like iTunes in that it defaults "Ignore Articles" to Yes and doesn't expose the opting as a config. I think we can easily expose it and greatly improve on whats out there today by also allowing the list of articles to be user defined. This would enable foreign language articles to be covered :-)
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