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(06-04-2018, 03:22 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Ok so just a bunch of Genre tags.
Try adding the Name tag to the file. It has to be spelled Name and not NAME or name AFAIK.
Btw what tag editor are u using?
-Tim
Okay, so I used metaflac (part of the flac command-line set) to add a new Vorbis comment line
Code: $ metaflac --set-tag="NAME=Schubert: String Quartet No 14 in D minor 'Death and the Maiden', D810" new-test-multi-genre.flac
$ metaflac --list new-test-multi-genre.flac
...
comment[17]: NAME=Schubert: String Quartet No 14 in D minor 'Death and the Maiden', D810
...
Started playing it in MPD
Code: OK MPD 0.20.0
currentsong
file: SDCARD/new-test-multi-genre.flac
Last-Modified: 2018-06-04T16:09:31Z
Album: Schubert: Death & the Maiden
Artist: Takács Quartet
Title: Schubert: String Quartet No 14 in D minor 'Death and the Maiden', D810 - Movement 3: Scherzo. Allegro molto
AlbumArtist: Takács Quartet
Genre: Classical
Genre: Chamber
Genre: Quartet
Genre: String
Composer: Schubert, Franz (1797-1828)
Date: 2006
Track: 3
Disc: 1
Name: Schubert: String Quartet No 14 in D minor 'Death and the Maiden', D810
Time: 220
duration: 220.093
Pos: 66
Id: 69
OK
Note that MPD seems to deal with tag-name capitalization in a sane manner.
I've also used EasyTAG (turns out I can configure it to "split lines" to avoid the problem I saw before trying to save multiple genre tags) and Mp3tag (the Windows program that is, loaded into PlayOnLinux on my laptop, not the command-line program mp3tag which comes as part of the Linux mp3blaster package and which recognizes only mp3 files), and MusicBrainz Picard.
Neither EasyTAG nor Mp3tag displays this new NAME tag with their default settings. Mp3tag lets me define a new tag type NAME (and even to display it as "Composition") and then for each file will display the tag and allow me to edit it. I haven't figured out how to add new tag types in EasyTAG.
Right out of the box, MusicBrainz Picard displays the new NAME tag in my file and allows me to edit it. I haven't used MBP enough to know if it let's me define new tag types or only detects the tags actually present in a file.
Regards,
Kent
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06-04-2018, 05:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2018, 05:19 PM by Tim Curtis.)
So its NAME (uppercase) when adding but MPD shows it as Name. I have some mp3 tracks made by @ raindog that have NAME tag but it does not show up in MPD currentsong. Maybe there is an issue parsing out tags from MP3 vs FLAC.
Here is a Mediainfo dump. File type is mp3.
Code: General
Complete name : /Users/Lt1user/Downloads/classical_collection/Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis/[2014] Beethoven- Cello Sonatas/[101] Sonatas (2) for cello & piano, Op. 5- Sonata in F major, Op. 5-1. Adagio sostenuto.mp3
Format : MPEG Audio
File size : 3.85 MiB
Duration : 2mn 47s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 173 Kbps
Album : Beethoven: Cello Sonatas
Album/Performer : Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis
Part/Position : 1
Part/Total : 1
Track name : Sonatas (2) for cello & piano, Op. 5: Sonata in F major, Op. 5/1. Adagio sostenuto
Track name/Position : 101
Track name/Total : 23
Performer : Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis
Composer : Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827)
Publisher : Hyperion
Genre : Classical
Recorded date : 2014
Writing library : LAME3.99r
ISRC : CDA 679812
Copyright : 2014 Hyperion Records Ltd, London
Comment : Robert Levin/Steven Isserlis [Artist]
ALBUM DYNAMIC RANGE : 14
ALBUMARTISTS : Levin, Robert [Piano]
CDCOUNT : 1
CDNUMBER : 1
COMPOSITION : Cello and Piano Sonata No. 0001 Op. 05/1 in F-M (1796)
DYNAMIC RANGE : 13
EPOQUE : (06) Classical
MEDIATYPE : FILE
NAME : Cello and Piano Sonata No. 0001 Op. 05/1 in F-M (1796)
OPUS : Op. 5
PERFORMER : Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis
TRACKCOUNT : 10
Audio
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Format settings : Joint stereo
Duration : 2mn 47s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 173 Kbps
Minimum bit rate : 32.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Frame rate : 41.667 fps (1152 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.44 MiB (89%)
Writing library : LAME3.99r
Encoding settings : -m j -V 2 -q 0 -lowpass 18.5 --vbr-new -b 32
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06-04-2018, 06:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2018, 06:20 PM by TheOldPresbyope.
Edit Reason: additional paragraph
)
(06-04-2018, 05:18 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: So its NAME (uppercase) when adding but MPD shows it as Name. I have some mp3 tracks made by @raindog that have NAME tag but it does not show up in MPD currentsong. Maybe there is an issue parsing out tags from MP3 vs FLAC.
Here is a Mediainfo dump. File type is mp3.
Code: General
Complete name : /Users/Lt1user/Downloads/classical_collection/Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis/[2014] Beethoven- Cello Sonatas/[101] Sonatas (2) for cello & piano, Op. 5- Sonata in F major, Op. 5-1. Adagio sostenuto.mp3
Format : MPEG Audio
File size : 3.85 MiB
Duration : 2mn 47s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 173 Kbps
Album : Beethoven: Cello Sonatas
Album/Performer : Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis
Part/Position : 1
Part/Total : 1
Track name : Sonatas (2) for cello & piano, Op. 5: Sonata in F major, Op. 5/1. Adagio sostenuto
Track name/Position : 101
Track name/Total : 23
Performer : Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis
Composer : Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827)
Publisher : Hyperion
Genre : Classical
Recorded date : 2014
Writing library : LAME3.99r
ISRC : CDA 679812
Copyright : 2014 Hyperion Records Ltd, London
Comment : Robert Levin/Steven Isserlis [Artist]
ALBUM DYNAMIC RANGE : 14
ALBUMARTISTS : Levin, Robert [Piano]
CDCOUNT : 1
CDNUMBER : 1
COMPOSITION : Cello and Piano Sonata No. 0001 Op. 05/1 in F-M (1796)
DYNAMIC RANGE : 13
EPOQUE : (06) Classical
MEDIATYPE : FILE
NAME : Cello and Piano Sonata No. 0001 Op. 05/1 in F-M (1796)
OPUS : Op. 5
PERFORMER : Robert Levin & Steven Isserlis
TRACKCOUNT : 10
Audio
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Format settings : Joint stereo
Duration : 2mn 47s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 173 Kbps
Minimum bit rate : 32.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Frame rate : 41.667 fps (1152 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.44 MiB (89%)
Writing library : LAME3.99r
Encoding settings : -m j -V 2 -q 0 -lowpass 18.5 --vbr-new -b 32
Interesting.
I wouldn't be surprised if MPD uses different libraries to deal with the different media file-types, with lots of room for inconsistent behavior. I still need to look at mp3 tagging in general. My only mp3 files are transcriptions of radio dramas, podcasts, and the like and neither consistently nor comprehensively tagged.
For completeness, here's what mediainfo reports on a file tagged just slightly differently to the file whose metaflac output I reported a few posts ago:
Code: pi@moode-test:/mnt/SDCARD $ mediainfo new-test-multi-genre.flac
General
Complete name : new-test-multi-genre.flac
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size : 16.8 MiB
Duration : 3 min 40 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 640 kb/s
Album : Schubert: Death & the Maiden
Album/Performer : Takács Quartet
Part : 01
Part/Total : 01 / 01
Track name : Schubert: String Quartet No 14 in D minor 'Death and the Maiden', D810 - Movement 3: Scherzo. Allegro molto
Track name/Position : 03
Track name/Total : 08 / 08
Performer : Takács Quartet
Composer : Schubert, Franz (1797-1828)
Genre : Classical / Chamber / Quartet / String
Recorded date : 2006
Copyright : © Hyperion Records Ltd, London
Cover : Yes
Cover description : Cover artwork
Cover type : Cover (front)
Cover MIME : image/png
NAME : Schubert: String Quartet No 14 in D minor 'Death and the Maiden', D810
Audio
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration : 3 min 40 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 631 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 16.6 MiB (99%)
Writing library : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-09-17)
Note that 1) it automagically converted all-caps tag names to "proper" names except my new "NAME" tag?!?, and 2) it reported out the four separate genra lines in the file as one combo line.
Added in edit: There's no requirement in the Vorbis comment spec for the tags to follow any special capitalization rules. I just entered "NAME" to be consistent with the rest of the tags in the file I had downloaded. Apparently some (many?) of the tag editors can be configured to enforce uniformity rules.
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(06-04-2018, 10:29 AM)raindog Wrote: (06-03-2018, 08:40 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: I've only seen the Name tag in radio streams but never in song files so possibly it could be used to store the Composition text. MPD already supports the rest of the tags in your list.
1) What is the hierarchy that determines which columns appear on the panel?
Genre
- Composer
-- Composition
---- Title
2) Are Performer and Album attributes of the Title or part of the hierarchy?
----Title
----"Album"
----"Performer"
3) Which tags or attributes need to be searchable?
The main challenge is that everyone's Classical collection is tagged differently and no matter what is offered, there will be a requirement to re-tag. Still I think its worthwhile to develop a proposal and get some feedback on what might work :-)
Guides.
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Be..._Classical
https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Classical
-Tim
As well as I know, there is no one standard in classical collection organisation. In my case, the collection is organised by:
- Epoque. There is no support for this tag in MPD so probably it will not be used, but it should be replaced by the Genre EDIT: By Genrea, I mean of course the subgenres of Classical, ie: Opera, Concerto, Vocal and so on.
- Composer
- Composition
- Performer (Artist in my case)
- Album
In my collection; performer and album are the parts of the hierarchy; and they should be in Moode. There are many performances of the same composition and I'd like to have possibility to choose one. Also, in case of compilation albums, the best way to choose is just the album.
I'm attaching the screenshot of my collection in Foobar2000 and JRiver below.
Concerning the search. I'd like to have possibility to search by:
- composer
- composition
- genre
- performer
- album
And yes, there is no stetlled standard in tagging classical music; but also rewriting tags is not so much problem; at least for me.
![[Image: foobar.png]](https://flint.lithics.eu/foobar.png)
![[Image: jriver.png]](https://flint.lithics.eu/jriver.png)
Seems like reasonable way to organize the collection, but MPD still not seeing the Name tag in the sample mp3's that you provided. The tag is in the file according to Mediainfo dump so more investigation required...
-Tim
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(06-04-2018, 08:45 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: (06-04-2018, 10:29 AM)raindog Wrote: (06-03-2018, 08:40 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: I've only seen the Name tag in radio streams but never in song files so possibly it could be used to store the Composition text. MPD already supports the rest of the tags in your list.
1) What is the hierarchy that determines which columns appear on the panel?
Genre
- Composer
-- Composition
---- Title
2) Are Performer and Album attributes of the Title or part of the hierarchy?
----Title
----"Album"
----"Performer"
3) Which tags or attributes need to be searchable?
The main challenge is that everyone's Classical collection is tagged differently and no matter what is offered, there will be a requirement to re-tag. Still I think its worthwhile to develop a proposal and get some feedback on what might work :-)
Guides.
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Be..._Classical
https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Style/Classical
-Tim
As well as I know, there is no one standard in classical collection organisation. In my case, the collection is organised by:
- Epoque. There is no support for this tag in MPD so probably it will not be used, but it should be replaced by the Genre EDIT: By Genrea, I mean of course the subgenres of Classical, ie: Opera, Concerto, Vocal and so on.
- Composer
- Composition
- Performer (Artist in my case)
- Album
In my collection; performer and album are the parts of the hierarchy; and they should be in Moode. There are many performances of the same composition and I'd like to have possibility to choose one. Also, in case of compilation albums, the best way to choose is just the album.
I'm attaching the screenshot of my collection in Foobar2000 and JRiver below.
Concerning the search. I'd like to have possibility to search by:
- composer
- composition
- genre
- performer
- album
...
Seems like reasonable way to organize the collection, but MPD still not seeing the Name tag in the sample mp3's that you provided. The tag is in the file according to Mediainfo dump so more investigation required...
-Tim
This arrangement is certainly worth trying.
I took a random walk through the MPD sources. I decided I don't have the chops to trace the logic through all those interlocking C++ modules.
Now that I've got a stable full of tag editors I can try to create variously tagged MP3 files to do black-box testing of MPD's parsing skills.
Regards,
Kent
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(06-04-2018, 10:57 PM)TheOldPresbyope Wrote: (06-04-2018, 08:45 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: (06-04-2018, 10:29 AM)raindog Wrote: (06-03-2018, 08:40 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: I've only seen the Name tag in radio streams but never in song files so possibly it could be used to store the Composition text. MPD already supports the rest of the tags in your list.
1) What is the hierarchy that determines which columns appear on the panel?
Genre
- Composer
-- Composition
---- Title
2) Are Performer and Album attributes of the Title or part of the hierarchy?
----Title
----"Album"
----"Performer"
...
As well as I know, there is no one standard in classical collection organisation. In my case, the collection is organised by:
- Epoque. There is no support for this tag in MPD so probably it will not be used, but it should be replaced by the Genre EDIT: By Genrea, I mean of course the subgenres of Classical, ie: Opera, Concerto, Vocal and so on.
- Composer
- Composition
- Performer (Artist in my case)
- Album
...
Concerning the search. I'd like to have possibility to search by:
- composer
- composition
- genre
- performer
- album
...
Seems like reasonable way to organize the collection, but MPD still not seeing the Name tag in the sample mp3's that you provided. The tag is in the file according to Mediainfo dump so more investigation required...
-Tim
This arrangement is certainly worth trying.
I took a random walk through the MPD sources. I decided I don't have the chops to trace the logic through all those interlocking C++ modules.
Now that I've got a stable full of tag editors I can try to create variously tagged MP3 files to do black-box testing of MPD's parsing skills.
Regards,
Kent
Oh, my, the ID3v2 tagging scheme is nothing like I expected.
The metadata is carried in a series of frames. From the ID3 tag version 2.3.0 document on the ID3 website, "[T]he text information frames are the most important frames, containing information like artist, album and more."
Each text information frame has an 4-character identifier beginning with "T". What my tag editors call the "Title" tag is actually a frame with the identifier "TIT2"; "Artist", the identifier "TPE1"; etc. The descriptions of these pre-defined identifiers in the ID3 tag version 2.3.0 document are only suggestive of these specific interpretations.
There is no obvious pre-defined T-identifier for "Name". Perhaps "TIT1", which is defined as "Content Group Description", would do, but I couldn't find it offered by my editors. YMMV.
When I used any of several tag editors to add a "Name" tag to an existing mp3 file, it was entered into the file as a frame with identifier "TXXX" (defined as "User defined text information frame") which contains the name "Name" and the value I entered in the tagger. (Same for tags I named "NAME" and "name".)
MPD plays the file but doesn't display my added tag, no matter the capitalization I used. I can only surmise that MPD has a table of the pre-defined T-identifiers it recognizes and doesn't trace through TXXX's to pick up user-defined values.
I haven't looked into genre tagging in ID3v2 yet.
FLAC with its use of Vorbis comments is looking better and better to me.
Regards,
Kent
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It looks like there are audio format dependencies when it comes to tags. Thats really awful.
Consider submitting an issue [feature] to MPD dev asking to add Composition to the list of supported tags for enabling easier search and navigation of Classical music connections.
Hierarchy
- Genre
-- Composer
--- Composition
---- Album
----- Title
Search
- composer
- composition
- genre
- performer
- album
In the above proposed structure there doesn't seem to be a need for Artist or AlbumArtist so to hedge against MPD not including Composition tag or if its given low priority then why not use one of those two tags to store the Composition?
It would still be reflected in the Classical Panel as 'Composition', and the overall design would involve some settings that would filter out the Classical genres from the Standard Panel. Basically, user would enable "Classical Library" option and then Classical music tagged as above would appear in the Classical panel while Popular music would appear in Standard panel. Something like that.
-Tim
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(06-05-2018, 01:32 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: It looks like there are audio format dependencies when it comes to tags. Thats really awful.
Consider submitting an issue [feature] to MPD dev asking to add Composition to the list of supported tags for enabling easier search and navigation of Classical music connections.
Hierarchy
- Genre
-- Composer
--- Composition
---- Album
----- Title
Search
- composer
- composition
- genre
- performer
- album
In the above proposed structure there doesn't seem to be a need for Artist or AlbumArtist so to hedge against MPD not including Composition tag or if its given low priority then why not use one of those two tags to store the Composition?
It would still be reflected in the Classical Panel as 'Composition', and the overall design would involve some settings that would filter out the Classical genres from the Standard Panel. Basically, user would enable "Classical Library" option and then Classical music tagged as above would appear in the Classical panel while Popular music would appear in Standard panel. Something like that.
-Tim
Hi, Tim.
Off the top of my head a request like this sounds reasonable but I'd like to think a bit more about it before approaching Max and company. (I probably should look through the MPD issues log too.)
I'm trying to create a mapping table of common concepts between ID3v1.1, ID3v2.3, Vorbis/FLAC, and whatever I should call iTunes' tagging of mp4/m4a. It's a crazy world out there. Our players and tag editors make it difficult to know what's actually being encoded.
MPD is curious too. This morning I created a test m4a file and added a "NAME" tag to it (it isn't a "standard" tag). Both mediainfo and MPD (currentsong) report out it back out when they read the file. This adds fuel to my notion that we're up against the different file format handlers in MPD having different ideas about metadata. For the end-user's standpoint there's no difference between the mp3 and m4a tags I entered.
Could you or @ raindog PM or email me one of those über-tagged mp3 files you've been using as test cases, the Beethoven Cello Sonata track, for example? I'm pretty sure I know what I'll find in it but I'd like to be sure.
Regards,
Kent
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Hi Kent,
I'm sure @ raindog won't mind. I placed the Cello tracks in the same secure dir as other test files :-)
-Tim
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This is great stuff! I have a large classical library and have struggled with searching and choosing works via the Library panel -- I tend to simply use Browser and rely on the directory map in my head. Thanks to everyone working on finding an implementation for this.
As Kent has shown, tagging applications are not all equal. If the issues with classical music tags can be sorted in MPD then it would be good to have a recommendation for the best application for re/tagging files so that they are compatible.
Much respect,
Richard
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