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Idea: Preset minimum volume level
#1
I'm assuming software vol control on MoOde is achieved by shedding digital bits. 

If so, it would be helpful to have a way to preset the minimum software 
vol level allowed during play (example 80). This is to remind user to use his analog vol control 
on his preamp rather than to attenuate Moode's volume to a point where resolution 
is severely compromised.
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#2
Volume attenuation whether its digital or analog adds noise to the signal. The goal of high quality volume control is to make the noise inaudible. ESS has an interesting presentation on how their on-chip digital volume control works.
https://downloads.artsexcellence.nl/broc...ontrol.pdf

If you use both an upstream digital volume control for example moOde's Software or Hardware volume control, and a downstream analog or digital volume control you should calibrate the entire system for lowest noise when attenuating volume.

1) Set downstream analog or digital volume control to 0 (no volume output)
2) Set moOde volume to 100%
3) Play a track that represents music that you typically listen to
4) Raise the downstream analog volume to the loudest level you would ever listen at

This generally results in a configuration where noise is inaudible when attenuating volume using moOde's volume control.
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#3
(08-25-2019, 12:50 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Volume attenuation whether its digital or analog adds noise to the signal. The goal of high quality volume control is to make the noise inaudible. ESS has an interesting presentation on how their on-chip digital volume control works.
https://downloads.artsexcellence.nl/broc...ontrol.pdf

If you use both an upstream digital volume control for example moOde's Software or Hardware volume control, and a downstream analog or digital volume control you should calibrate the entire system for lowest noise when attenuating volume.

1) Set downstream analog or digital volume control to 0 (no volume output)
2) Set moOde volume to 100%
3) Play a track that represents music that you typically listen to
4) Raise the downstream analog volume to the loudest level you would ever listen at

This generally results in a configuration where noise is inaudible when attenuating volume.
Reply
#4
(08-25-2019, 01:14 PM)Bernie7 Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 12:50 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Volume attenuation whether its digital or analog adds noise to the signal. The goal of high quality volume control is to make the noise inaudible. ESS has an interesting presentation on how their on-chip digital volume control works.
https://downloads.artsexcellence.nl/broc...ontrol.pdf

If you use both an upstream digital volume control for example moOde's Software or Hardware volume control, and a downstream analog or digital volume control you should calibrate the entire system for lowest noise when attenuating volume.

1) Set downstream analog or digital volume control to 0 (no volume output)
2) Set moOde volume to 100%
3) Play a track that represents music that you typically listen to
4) Raise the downstream analog volume to the loudest level you would ever listen at

This generally results in a configuration where noise is inaudible when attenuating volume.

Hi Tim

Yes I agree with your method and it's what I recommend to others. However tracks have different playback levels and using 
Moode's volume control remotely is more handy than operating the downstream analogue volume control. 
Over time and with frequent use, there's a possibility that less discerning users will overuse software attenuation, hence the suggestion to have a user preset limit.
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#5
(08-25-2019, 01:26 PM)Bernie7 Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 01:14 PM)Bernie7 Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 12:50 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Volume attenuation whether its digital or analog adds noise to the signal. The goal of high quality volume control is to make the noise inaudible. ESS has an interesting presentation on how their on-chip digital volume control works.
https://downloads.artsexcellence.nl/broc...ontrol.pdf

If you use both an upstream digital volume control for example moOde's Software or Hardware volume control, and a downstream analog or digital volume control you should calibrate the entire system for lowest noise when attenuating volume.

1) Set downstream analog or digital volume control to 0 (no volume output)
2) Set moOde volume to 100%
3) Play a track that represents music that you typically listen to
4) Raise the downstream analog volume to the loudest level you would ever listen at

This generally results in a configuration where noise is inaudible when attenuating volume.

Hi Tim

Yes I agree with your method and it's what I recommend to others. However tracks have different playback levels and using 
Moode's volume control remotely is more handy than operating the downstream analogue volume control. 
Over time and with frequent use, there's a possibility that less discerning users will overuse software attenuation, hence the suggestion to have a user preset limit.

This preset limit can be offered as an option of course, which will not affect those who don't need it.
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#6
At the risk of starting a flame war, can you hear the change in noise level introduced by either volume control method?

MPD's software volume control in 32-bit floating point with dither works well enough that I can't tell the difference with my modest DACs, <insert> and either works fine with my downstream system set at a fixed level </insert> but that's just me.

It would seem that if one really cared, then one would disable volume control in the MPD config panel and use only the downstream volume control whatever it is.

Like the man says, "enjoy the music"!

Regards,
Kent

PS - I reread my post and realized it sounds like I'm mixing apples and oranges, I added the <insert></insert> phrase to clarify. In effect I'm saying the approach Tim outlined works fine given my ears.

I blame my cat for interrupting my train of thought while i was posting.
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#7
(08-25-2019, 01:26 PM)Bernie7 Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 01:14 PM)Bernie7 Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 12:50 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Volume attenuation whether its digital or analog adds noise to the signal. The goal of high quality volume control is to make the noise inaudible. ESS has an interesting presentation on how their on-chip digital volume control works.
https://downloads.artsexcellence.nl/broc...ontrol.pdf

If you use both an upstream digital volume control for example moOde's Software or Hardware volume control, and a downstream analog or digital volume control you should calibrate the entire system for lowest noise when attenuating volume.

1) Set downstream analog or digital volume control to 0 (no volume output)
2) Set moOde volume to 100%
3) Play a track that represents music that you typically listen to
4) Raise the downstream analog volume to the loudest level you would ever listen at

This generally results in a configuration where noise is inaudible when attenuating volume.

Hi Tim

Yes I agree with your method and it's what I recommend to others. However tracks have different playback levels and using 
Moode's volume control remotely is more handy than operating the downstream analogue volume control. 
Over time and with frequent use, there's a possibility that less discerning users will overuse software attenuation, hence the suggestion to have a user preset limit.

Hi,

The downstream volume control is not used after the system is calibrated. Volume is controlled entirely by the upstream control i.e., moOde.
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#8
Hi,

I  also have a little problem with the volume(s):
RasPi 3 with AMP2, hardware control, moode 6.1

- Using the moode GUI Vol.-Control AND streaming from my mobile (volume by hardware buttons) volume changes in the part <Digital> in alsamixer. On the screenshot = 22. So far so good.

- Using airplay from the iMac, then <Digital> jump's to 100 and volume control is only done by airplay on the Mac.
I'am not absolut! shure, but I mean that there are less distortions when it's set manually to max. 80. Is it possible to set that as default?

Thanks Norbert


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#9
There have been several requests over the years to add an option to set the max ALSA volume level. IIRC it was to work around a buggy DAC driver that outputted > 0dB at ALSA 100%. I think it was a Hifiberry driver but that bug was fixed a long time ago.

Another use case was to compensate for the on-board Pi audio driver which outputs +4dB at ALSA 100%. This was done by Raspberry Pi team to enable wider variety of headphones to be used.

In any case I have it on the TODO list "Option to limit ALSA max volume" and will get to it eventually.


-Tim
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