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Intermittent loud ticks and no-audio using Spotify
#21
Digital audio reproduction isn't secret sauce voodoo magic. It's math and science. No combination of DSP is going to get you something from nothing and you can't retrieve detail that isn't there.

I'd love to see an audiophile distro that bucked the trends and said "look you idiots you can upsample to a fixed rate or you can go bitperfect that's it. We're not buying your pseudoscience bullsh*t."
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#22
(10-11-2020, 01:01 AM)JasonLG19 Wrote: My honest opinion is that upsampling is a waste of CPU cycles unless your sound card doesn't support the sample rate like some crappy old cards that only do 48000 so you have to upsample 44100 for example.

and perhaps where manufacturers onboard digital filters are bypassed by high software sampling rates  or hardware re-samplers ?.
Some report the ES-90xx dacs benefit from being input DSD format.
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bob
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#23
(10-11-2020, 01:01 AM)JasonLG1979 Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 10:19 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: It's an interesting approach. I've thought about doing something like that but I'm not sure if it can be made compatible with some of the new resampling features we will be introducing in our upcoming release.

Our upcoming 7 release includes a modified MPD that performs what we call "Selective resampling". You set a sample rate target and then choose how you want the source sample rate handled. MPD automatically changes the sample rate on-the-fly.

- Upsample if source < target rate
- Upsample only 44.1K source rate
- Upsample only 44.1K and 48K source rates
- Resample (adhere to base freq)
- Upsample if source < target rate (adhere to base freq)

In this case we would not know the actual sample rate ahead of time in order to modify the PCM.conf.


My honest opinion is that upsampling is a waste of CPU cycles unless your sound card doesn't support the sample rate like some crappy old cards that only do 48000 so you have to upsample 44100 for example. Upsampling for no reason, in and of itself never increases sound quality, at best it doesn't hurt it, at worse it degrades it. The only reason it's a thing is because "audiofools" ignorantly believe that more MUST be better. It's about as effective as spending 10 grand on speaker wire.

But you got to give the people what they want or they complain so I get why you're doing it.

- Upsample if source < target rate

Just resample everything except mpd to target rate.

- Upsample only 44.1K source rate

Again upsample everything to some target rate.

By "base freq" I assume you mean some integer multiple of the so like 2 x oversampling or 4 x oversampling.

You obviously don't follow the discussion in our repo and forum about resampling.

Your statement "But you got to give the people what they want or they complain so I get why you're doing it." is totally bogus.
Enjoy the Music!
moodeaudio.org | Mastodon Feed | GitHub
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#24
(10-11-2020, 01:16 AM)JasonLG1979 Wrote: Digital audio reproduction isn't secret sauce voodoo magic. It's math and science. No combination of DSP is going to get you something from nothing and you can't retrieve detail that isn't there.

I'd love to see an audiophile distro that bucked the trends and said "look you idiots you can upsample to a fixed rate or you can go bitperfect that's it. We're not buying your pseudoscience bullsh*t."

I have no tolerance for this kind of post that refers to audio enthusiasts as "idiots" or uses terms like "bullsh*t" in the post.
Enjoy the Music!
moodeaudio.org | Mastodon Feed | GitHub
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#25
Then what do you call people that don't believe in math and science?
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#26
(10-11-2020, 02:22 AM)DRONE7 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 01:01 AM)JasonLG19 Wrote: My honest opinion is that upsampling is a waste of CPU cycles unless your sound card doesn't support the sample rate like some crappy old cards that only do 48000 so you have to upsample 44100 for example.

and perhaps where manufacturers onboard digital filters are bypassed by high software sampling rates  or hardware re-samplers ?.
Some report the ES-90xx dacs benefit from being input DSD format.

The filters are in place to block ultrasonic noise. Modern delta-sigma DACs internally convert PCM into a DSD like format anyway and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more. Have you never read a datasheet?
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#27
(10-11-2020, 04:20 AM)JasonLG1979 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 02:22 AM)DRONE7 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 01:01 AM)JasonLG19 Wrote: My honest opinion is that upsampling is a waste of CPU cycles unless your sound card doesn't support the sample rate like some crappy old cards that only do 48000 so you have to upsample 44100 for example.

and perhaps where manufacturers onboard digital filters are bypassed by high software sampling rates  or hardware re-samplers ?.
Some report the ES-90xx dacs benefit from being input DSD format.

The filters are in place to block ultrasonic noise. Modern delta-sigma DACs internally convert PCM into a DSD like format anyway and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more. Have you never read a datasheet?

"DSD like format" ???  How does that compare to DSD  ?

and "and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more." seems to negate your bias against any and all oversampling ?
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bob
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#28
(10-11-2020, 04:26 AM)DRONE7 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 04:20 AM)JasonLG1979 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 02:22 AM)DRONE7 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 01:01 AM)JasonLG19 Wrote: My honest opinion is that upsampling is a waste of CPU cycles unless your sound card doesn't support the sample rate like some crappy old cards that only do 48000 so you have to upsample 44100 for example.

and perhaps where manufacturers onboard digital filters are bypassed by high software sampling rates  or hardware re-samplers ?.
Some report the ES-90xx dacs benefit from being input DSD format.

The filters are in place to block ultrasonic noise. Modern delta-sigma DACs internally convert PCM into a DSD like format anyway and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more. Have you never read a datasheet?

"DSD like format" ???  How does that compare to DSD  ?

and "and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more." seems to negate your bias against any and all oversampling ?

Google the origin of DSD or read a wikipedia article about it. DSD is literally just taking the delta-sigma output of a ADC before it's filtered and converted to PCM.


No my point is why spend the CPU cycles upsampling when the DAC does it for you in the process of the digital to analog conversion.
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#29
Modern delta-sigma DACs basically work like this:

PCM input >> oversample the crap out of the PCM input >> convert PCM to Pulse Density Modulation >> ultrasonic filter.
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#30
(10-11-2020, 04:56 AM)JasonLG1979 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 04:26 AM)DRONE7 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 04:20 AM)JasonLG1979 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 02:22 AM)DRONE7 Wrote:
(10-11-2020, 01:01 AM)JasonLG19 Wrote: My honest opinion is that upsampling is a waste of CPU cycles unless your sound card doesn't support the sample rate like some crappy old cards that only do 48000 so you have to upsample 44100 for example.

and perhaps where manufacturers onboard digital filters are bypassed by high software sampling rates  or hardware re-samplers ?.
Some report the ES-90xx dacs benefit from being input DSD format.

The filters are in place to block ultrasonic noise. Modern delta-sigma DACs internally convert PCM into a DSD like format anyway and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more. Have you never read a datasheet?

"DSD like format" ???  How does that compare to DSD  ?

and "and oversample even the max input sample rate by up to 64 times ot more." seems to negate your bias against any and all oversampling ?

Google the origin of DSD or read a wikipedia article about it. DSD is literally just taking the delta-sigma output of a ADC before it's filtered and converted to PCM.


No my point is why spend the CPU cycles upsampling when the DAC does it for you in the process of the digital to analog conversion.

"No my point is why spend the CPU cycles upsampling when the DAC does it for you in the process of the digital to analog conversion."

Accepted, though with a hardware re-sampler the CPU cycles are offloaded...are they not ?

No hit to the Pi and downstream preference is subjective so why worry...be happy... oops...some McFerrin creeping in there..
Cheers,
Bob
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bob
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