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+--- Thread: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue (/showthread.php?tid=3706)
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RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - TheOldPresbyope - 04-16-2021
@weaver
In December, the full Raspberry Pi OS---aka Raspberry Pi Desktop---was switched to the PulseAudio sound server. The lower-level ALSA is still included but this switch introduces complications. Fortunately, PA is not included in Raspberry Pi OS Lite so there has been no immediate impact on moOde.
As far as I know all the implications for moOde have not been mapped out but at least one dev/tester has been hinting strongly that PA might be the way to go to ease the pain of "plumbing" together the various components of the audio subsystem.
Regards,
Kent
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - weaver - 04-16-2021
(04-16-2021, 12:43 PM)TheOldPresbyope Wrote: @weaverThank you, so a not-yet, but maybe-sometime thing.
In December, the full Raspberry Pi OS---aka Raspberry Pi Desktop---was switched to the PulseAudio sound server. The lower-level ALSA is still included but this switch introduces complications. Fortunately, PA is not included in Raspberry Pi OS Lite so there has been no immediate impact on moOde.
As far as I know all the implications for moOde have not been mapped out but at least one dev/tester has been hinting strongly that PA might be the way to go to ease the pain of "plumbing" together the various components of the audio subsystem.
Regards,
Kent
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - weaver - 12-10-2021
(04-16-2021, 12:43 PM)TheOldPresbyope Wrote: @weaver
In December, the full Raspberry Pi OS---aka Raspberry Pi Desktop---was switched to the PulseAudio sound server. The lower-level ALSA is still included but this switch introduces complications. Fortunately, PA is not included in Raspberry Pi OS Lite so there has been no immediate impact on moOde.
As far as I know all the implications for moOde have not been mapped out but at least one dev/tester has been hinting strongly that PA might be the way to go to ease the pain of "plumbing" together the various components of the audio subsystem.
Regards,
Kent
Just checking back in on this one to see if there has been any progress on the audio 'plumbing' referred to above?
In parallel to this, how to integrate Qobuz into a moOde based system still looks to be generating queries. I currently have Qobuz webplayer running on a Pi (again, via VNC) so the question of routing this high res source via moOde crops up again. (Yes, I can, and have, used BubbleUPnP on a phone to achieve the same).
Thanks
ps. running 7.5.0
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - Tim Curtis - 12-10-2021
AFAIK there is no issue because the new "Bullseye" release of RaspiOS Lite provides same ALSA infrastructure as current "Buster" release used in moOde 7 series.
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - weaver - 12-10-2021
(12-10-2021, 12:13 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: AFAIK there is no issue because the new "Bullseye" release of RaspiOS Lite provides same ALSA infrastructure as current "Buster" release used in moOde 7 series.
Sorry, not an issue at all in the sense of something that needs fixing. Rather, following up on the suggestion that PulseAudio may open up some possibilities that were not previously there in terms of other sound sources on a Pi being routed via moOde for playback.
I was hoping it made sense in relation to the previous posts in this thread which is why I didn't put it in a new topic.
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - Tim Curtis - 12-10-2021
I don't know much about PulseAudio other than it functions as a Sound Server that sits between the Player application and the audio hardware. Here's a link https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/About/
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - TheOldPresbyope - 12-10-2021
[we've strayed well off the stated subject of this thread
]Sometime ago, I happened upon this great article Pulseaudio Under the Hood. I found it more informative than the PulseAudio site in terms of it laying out the architecture, the components, and the "wiring" involved in using PA. Others may find it useful too.
Speaking as a Linux-audio dilettante, it looks like serious rework is needed to wedge PA between moOde/MPD and ALSA, but that's just me. I'd sure want to see the justification for it spelled out.
The shortcomings of PA should be kept in mind, as well. Quoting from the article
Quote:There are several known disadvantages of using PulseAudio, including both fundamental issues, and implementation issues that may be resolved in the future:
- additional complexity, overhead, and bugs (more code always means more bugs)
- lack of comprehensive documentation
- non-intuitive command line tools and configuration
- weird features like autospawn and built-in watchdog
- higher minimum possible latency
- poor quality of service over an unreliable network like 802.11 (WiFi)
- no hardware mixing and resampling
- no hardware volumes when using ALSA UCM
It would seem only a few of these are serious issues vis-a-vis moOde, but I don't claim to know PA in any detail and have no idea if any of them have been addressed since the article was published four years ago.
And, please, let's move any further conversation to its own thread where others will be able to find it.
Regards,
Kent
RE: 7.1 desktop GUI/VNC log in issue - weaver - 12-13-2021
(12-10-2021, 05:20 PM)TheOldPresbyope Wrote: [we've strayed well off the stated subject of this thread
Sometime ago, I happened upon this great article Pulseaudio Under the Hood. I found it more informative than the PulseAudio site in terms of it laying out the architecture, the components, and the "wiring" involved in using PA. Others may find it useful too.
Speaking as a Linux-audio dilettante, it looks like serious rework is needed to wedge PA between moOde/MPD and ALSA, but that's just me. I'd sure want to see the justification for it spelled out.
The shortcomings of PA should be kept in mind, as well. Quoting from the article
Quote:There are several known disadvantages of using PulseAudio, including both fundamental issues, and implementation issues that may be resolved in the future:
- additional complexity, overhead, and bugs (more code always means more bugs)
- lack of comprehensive documentation
- non-intuitive command line tools and configuration
- weird features like autospawn and built-in watchdog
- higher minimum possible latency
- poor quality of service over an unreliable network like 802.11 (WiFi)
- no hardware mixing and resampling
- no hardware volumes when using ALSA UCM
It would seem only a few of these are serious issues vis-a-vis moOde, but I don't claim to know PA in any detail and have no idea if any of them have been addressed since the article was published four years ago.
And, please, let's move any further conversation to its own thread where others will be able to find it.
Regards,
Kent
New thread here