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+--- Forum: Sound quality (https://moodeaudio.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=34)
+--- Thread: Sound Quality in release 4.1 (/showthread.php?tid=149)
Sound Quality in release 4.1 - nad12 - 05-02-2018
I have been using the 3.8.4 and upgraded to 4.1 and there seems to be a veil over the entire range in 4.1. I have tried all the diif optimizations but
that veil does not seem to go away. I use 24/192 files from hd tracks and all my digitized collection of cd/albums. when I put the 3.8.4 everything sounds as
musical as it was before going to 4.1. I would appreciate any any suggestions. I play back through musical fidelity dac / pre and quicksilver amps into b& w 801 with all silver wiring.
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - Tim Curtis - 05-02-2018
Hi,
Please post as many details as you can about moOde settings or any other settings in your v3 and v4 systems.
-Tim
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - nad12 - 05-02-2018
I basically had the v3 at default settings with the allo digione at 100% volume, all the extra comm stuff was disabled and it sounds very detailed across the full frequency range and was not harsh either and the sound was just right and musical. I only tested the v4 for the sake of some extra options (nothing to do with sound quality) and tried all the optimizations suggested in this forum but could not get the detail or the musicalty out of it. it sounds as if there is less detail and sounds a bit soft ( sorry, but it sound like other similiar software available). V3 has a ref. quality sound. which betters all the software i have tried including the highly rated software titles on windows platform. I am not a software engineer but have been pursuing the best out of digital music for a very long time, all i can give is the listeners impression. I have been pursuing the best sound for about 45+years. Can you possible get the v3 sound in v4 ( I understand the hurdles you are facing and will wait to try v4 again ) Till that time v3 is the very best out there imho.
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - tomek - 05-02-2018
(05-02-2018, 10:36 PM)nad12 Wrote: I basically had the v3 at default settings with the allo digione at 100% volume, all the extra comm stuff was disabled and it sounds very detailed across the full frequency range and was not harsh either and the sound was just right and musical. I only tested the v4 for the sake of some extra options (nothing to do with sound quality) and tried all the optimizations suggested in this forum but could not get the detail or the musicalty out of it. it sounds as if there is less detail and sounds a bit soft ( sorry, but it sound like other similiar software available). V3 has a ref. quality sound. which betters all the software i have tried including the highly rated software titles on windows platform. I am not a software engineer but have been pursuing the best out of digital music for a very long time, all i can give is the listeners impression. I have been pursuing the best sound for about 45+years. Can you possible get the v3 sound in v4 ( I understand the hurdles you are facing and will wait to try v4 again ) Till that time v3 is the very best out there imho.
Have you used LL or RT kernel in your v3, or a normal kernel ?
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - Tim Curtis - 05-03-2018
(05-02-2018, 10:36 PM)nad12 Wrote: I basically had the v3 at default settings with the allo digione at 100% volume, all the extra comm stuff was disabled and it sounds very detailed across the full frequency range and was not harsh either and the sound was just right and musical. I only tested the v4 for the sake of some extra options (nothing to do with sound quality) and tried all the optimizations suggested in this forum but could not get the detail or the musicalty out of it. it sounds as if there is less detail and sounds a bit soft ( sorry, but it sound like other similiar software available). V3 has a ref. quality sound. which betters all the software i have tried including the highly rated software titles on windows platform. I am not a software engineer but have been pursuing the best out of digital music for a very long time, all i can give is the listeners impression. I have been pursuing the best sound for about 45+years. Can you possible get the v3 sound in v4 ( I understand the hurdles you are facing and will wait to try v4 again ) Till that time v3 is the very best out there imho.
Not without knowing precisely what in the software is responsible for your positive listening experience. The challenge is that over the years that I've been developing and supporting moOde I've received roughly an equal number of feedback responses for and against one version vs the other.
Just recently for example a small group of audio enthusiasts preferred the sound of moOde 4 series to that of the 3 series.
-Tim
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - RafaPolit - 05-03-2018
I have read 6 or 7 posts now claiming the 3.7+ superiority over 4.x, including my own experience.
I must have missed the ones claiming v4 is better, because I delayed moving over to 4 due to the mostly negative reviews regarding sound. I only did so after my 3.8 installation decided to stop recognizing the USB DAC and got corrupted.
Still, my experience mimics that explained here: the sound now ir more 'common', or 'veiled'.
I have asked repeatedly what could have that effect on the sound, what was changed from one version to the other, but my posts seem to dissappear into the wind every time I ask about it.
It's like a cooking recipe: the old one tasted better! That can be true or it can be an impression, because memory is frail and subjective. The only approach is to know what ingredients or proportions you changed. And try to go back to the previous ingredients and try and see if it was true or just impression.
But basing it in: there are divided opinions... is, in my humble opinion, not the way to tackle it.
Obviously, just as sound quality, that is just my personal opinion and could be wrong.
Rafa.
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - Tim Curtis - 05-03-2018
Why would you believe that Forum posts represent some sort of absolute measure of anything? Its usually just the opposite because of cooperator bias, nonresponse bias, etc. For example, users that like moOde 4 SQ may simply not post about it and conversely users that don't like it may be more inclined to post.
Btw, how is it possible to determine which among the thousands of changes in the entire Linux/moOde platform from release to release may have influenced SQ ?
-Tim
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - swizzle - 05-03-2018
(05-03-2018, 02:17 AM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Why would you believe that Forum posts represent some sort of absolute measure of anything? Its usually just the opposite because of cooperator bias, nonresponse bias, etc. For example, users that like moOde 4 SQ may simply not post about it and conversely users that don't like it may be more inclined to post.
I was a firm believer in the advanced kernels for 3.x but am happy with the sound quality of 4.x.
I didn’t directly compare to 3.8.4 with my preferred setup (ll + fifo) but I recently did compare 4.x to picoreplayer which has an rt kernel option and didn’t notice any substantive difference either with tidal hifi or ssd hosted flacs over usb. I don’t do any resampling though so if you have processor heavy workloads that you think are introducing latency be sure to have processor set to performance, turn off any underclocking, and maybe consider one of the new Pi 3+ models with faster processor.
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - RafaPolit - 05-04-2018
(05-03-2018, 02:17 AM)Tim Curtis Wrote: Why would you believe that Forum posts represent some sort of absolute measure of anything? ...
I actually don't believe that. And I agree that a happy user is less likely to post. But since I read some concerns, I decided to delay upgrading. Unfortunately, once I did, I found those concerns mirrored my own appreciation of the sound quality.
Alas, if you can't know which changes may affect the sound, then we are wondering half blind and just hopping that some change does not affect sound without any control over them? Then that is a serious downside of this approach which may be less of a gamble in other 'simpler' systems.
I'll have to look into those more in depth. Thanks,
Rafa.
RE: Sound Quality in release 4.1 - Skip Pack - 05-04-2018
In my case, I cannot state that 3.8.4-LL is better than 4.1 with the same settings elsewhere as a general statement. It does sound better in my system, but my system is built for my old ears and preferences and I have no reason to believe that other folks with their ears and their systems wouldn't prefer 4.1.
For me, the 3.8.4 sound has a different tonal balance versus 4.1. I hear no true problems like distortion, just a little too much 'presence' that suggests to me that the midrange is a bit strong. Perfect equalization could well do the trick. I have tried the equalization before and I could really hear some degradation. I'll try it this evening with 4.1 to see if the earlier degradation is still there.
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