Problem: White noise playing DSD audio

[PROBLEM] White noise playing DSD audio - Printable Version

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White noise playing DSD audio - jcucurull - 07-02-2024

Hello,

I am having an issue playing DST files (ripped from my own SACDs). In my case my AVR does not support DSD natively, thus they are automatically converted to PCM by MPD.

The issue is that when I reproduce a DST file, the song starts playing but on top of it one can hear a strong white noise. This happens both with 2 and 6 channels songs and in all the channels. I have also tested to enable and disable the Thesycon patch but there is no difference.

Anybody has or has had the same issue?

Best,
Jordi.

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - Tim Curtis - 07-02-2024

A quick test on a DSD64 (.dsf) track and no SQ issues playing through Yamaha AVR.

MPD oddly reports bit depth = 1 but maybe this has something to do with the iec958 audio format.

Code:
pi@hsu:~ $ moodeutl --hwparams

card 0: Pi HDMI 1

access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED

format: IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 192000 (192000/1)

period_size: 16384

buffer_size: 65536

Code:
pi@hsu:~ $ mediainfo /mnt/NAS/TRX-NFS-FLAC/The\ Police/Every\ Breath\ You\ Take\ -\ The\ Classics/01\ Roxanne.dsf 

General

Complete name                            : /mnt/NAS/TRX-NFS-FLAC/The Police/Every Breath You Take - The Classics/01 Roxanne.dsf

Format                                   : DSF

Format/Info                              : Direct Stream Digital Stream File

Format version                           : Version 1

File size                                : 131 MiB

Duration                                 : 3 min 13 s

Overall bit rate                         : 5 665 kb/s

Album                                    : Every Breath You Take - The Classics

Track name                               : Roxanne

Track name/Position                      : 1

Performer                                : The Police

Genre                                    : Rock

Recorded date                            : 2003

Cover                                    : Yes

Cover type                               : Cover (front)

Cover MIME                               : image/jpeg

Audio

Format                                   : DSD

Format/Info                              : Direct Stream Digital

Commercial name                          : DSD64

Format settings                          : Little

Duration                                 : 3 min 13 s

Bit rate                                 : 5 645 kb/s

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel layout                           : L R

Sampling rate                            : 2 822 kHz

Compression mode                         : Lossless

Stream size                              : 130 MiB (100%)

[attachment=3933]

What tool did you use to rip the track?

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - jcucurull - 07-03-2024

Hello Tim,

I used the SACD-Extract that is a modification of https://github.com/sacd-ripper/sacd-ripper. Basically I used the steps of this page: https://absolutelybaching.com/music-articles/how-to-rip-an-sacd/ and this thread: https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rip-sacd-with-a-blu-ray-player.3652/ with my old Oppo BDP-03 bluray player. The files are correctly reproduced in my current Panasonic UB820 bluray player and with Foobar in my computer.

One of the audio files that I have:

Code:
jcucurull@moode:/media/Storage/Musica/Masters/Biblioteca-DST/Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition/Stereo $ mediainfo 01\ -\ So\ Far\ Away.dsf 

General

Complete name                            : 01 - So Far Away.dsf

Format                                   : DSF

Format/Info                              : Direct Stream Digital Stream File

Format version                           : Version 1

File size                                : 210 MiB

Duration                                 : 5 min 11 s

Overall bit rate                         : 5 647 kb/s

Album                                    : Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition

Album/Performer                          : Dire Straits

Part/Position                            : 1

Part/Total                               : 1

Track name                               : So Far Away

Track name/Position                      : 1

Track name/Total                         : 9

Performer                                : Dire Straits

Publisher                                : Mercury Records Limited

Genre                                    : Other

Recorded date                            : 2005-20-04

ISRC                                     : GBF080500201

Copyright                                : Copyright 2005 Mercury Records Limited

Cover                                    : Yes

Cover type                               : Cover (front)

Cover MIME                               : image/jpeg

PERFORMER                                : Dire Straits

Audio

Format                                   : DSD

Format/Info                              : Direct Stream Digital

Commercial name                          : DSD64

Format settings                          : Little

Duration                                 : 5 min 11 s

Bit rate                                 : 5 645 kb/s

Channel(s)                               : 2 channels

Channel layout                           : L R

Sampling rate                            : 2 822 kHz

Compression mode                         : Lossless

Stream size                              : 210 MiB (100%)

And during playing this is the information of the audio sent:

Code:
card 0: Pi HDMI 1

access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED

format: IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 96000 (96000/1)

period_size: 12000

buffer_size: 48000

The sound quality is very good, but on top there is the white noise.

I can send you a sample file to see if it creates the same issue than to me (to know if the problem is the file itself or my setup).

If I reproduce a stereo 24/96 FLAC file is correctly reproduced and the hardware parameters are exactly the same than with the DSF file.

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - Tim Curtis - 07-03-2024

(07-03-2024, 08:35 AM)jcucurull Wrote: Hello Tim,

I used the SACD-Extract that is a modification of https://github.com/sacd-ripper/sacd-ripper. Basically I used the steps of this page: https://absolutelybaching.com/music-articles/how-to-rip-an-sacd/ and this thread: https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rip-sacd-with-a-blu-ray-player.3652/ with my old Oppo BDP-03 bluray player. The files are correctly reproduced in my current Panasonic UB820 bluray player and with Foobar in my computer.

One of the audio files that I have:

Code:
jcucurull@moode:/media/Storage/Musica/Masters/Biblioteca-DST/Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition/Stereo $ mediainfo 01\ -\ So\ Far\ Away.dsf General Complete name : 01 - So Far Away.dsf Format : DSF Format/Info : Direct Stream Digital Stream File Format version : Version 1 File size : 210 MiB Duration : 5 min 11 s Overall bit rate : 5 647 kb/s Album : Brothers In Arms - 20th Anniversary Edition Album/Performer : Dire Straits Part/Position : 1 Part/Total : 1 Track name : So Far Away Track name/Position : 1 Track name/Total : 9 Performer : Dire Straits Publisher : Mercury Records Limited Genre : Other Recorded date : 2005-20-04 ISRC : GBF080500201 Copyright : Copyright 2005 Mercury Records Limited Cover : Yes Cover type : Cover (front) Cover MIME : image/jpeg PERFORMER : Dire Straits Audio Format : DSD Format/Info : Direct Stream Digital Commercial name : DSD64 Format settings : Little Duration : 5 min 11 s Bit rate : 5 645 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel layout : L R Sampling rate : 2 822 kHz Compression mode : Lossless Stream size : 210 MiB (100%)

And during playing this is the information of the audio sent:

Code:
card 0: Pi HDMI 1 access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED format: IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE subformat: STD channels: 2 rate: 96000 (96000/1) period_size: 12000 buffer_size: 48000

The sound quality is very good, but on top there is the white noise.

I can send you a sample file to see if it creates the same issue than to me (to know if the problem is the file itself or my setup).

If I reproduce a stereo 24/96 FLAC file is correctly reproduced and the hardware parameters are exactly the same than with the DSF file.

I'll test the file later today. Thx.

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - Tim Curtis - 07-03-2024

No SQ or white noise issues on my end.

[attachment=3938][attachment=3939]

The only oddity is that MPD reports PCM bit depth = 1. My AVR only reports the sample rate 192K so I'm not sure what bit depth is actually being used: 16 or 24. This odd PCM bit depth only happens for DSD -> PCM over HDMI.

Code:
pi@hsu:~ $ moodeutl --hwparams

card 0: Pi HDMI 1

access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED

format: IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 192000 (192000/1)

period_size: 16384

buffer_size: 65536

pi@hsu:~ $

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - jcucurull - 07-03-2024

It is really strange because as I mentioned a FLAC 24/96 is correctly reproduced. The only difference on your side is that your AVR supports 192Khz, while mine only 96 Khz. But this should not be an issue... maybe I should ask in the MPD forum...

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - Nutul - 07-03-2024

(07-03-2024, 07:25 PM)jcucurull Wrote: It is really strange because as I mentioned a FLAC 24/96 is correctly reproduced. The only difference on your side is that your AVR supports 192Khz, while mine only 96 Khz. But this should not be an issue... maybe I should ask in the MPD forum...

If Tim's MPD's conversion happens to be at 192kHz, most probably is yours as well... but since your AVR doesn't support it, any artifact could be taking place...
Although I would expect on;y clicks and pops for an unsupported sampling-rate, it might be true that every device has its own behavior, one resembling yours...
Do youhappen to have any PCM (FLAC, for example) file at 192 to play (also, better if at different bit-depth, like 16 and 24)?
Seeing what your AVR is (un)able to reproduce could point us some somewhere nearer to the cause...

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - Tim Curtis - 07-03-2024

(07-03-2024, 07:25 PM)jcucurull Wrote: It is really strange because as I mentioned a FLAC 24/96 is correctly reproduced. The only difference on your side is that your AVR supports 192Khz, while mine only 96 Khz. But this should not be an issue... maybe I should ask in the MPD forum...

Try setting SoX resampling to 48K and see if there is any change.

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - jcucurull - 07-03-2024

(07-03-2024, 08:17 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote:
(07-03-2024, 07:25 PM)jcucurull Wrote: It is really strange because as I mentioned a FLAC 24/96 is correctly reproduced. The only difference on your side is that your AVR supports 192Khz, while mine only 96 Khz. But this should not be an issue... maybe I should ask in the MPD forum...

Try setting SoX resampling to 48K and see if there is any change.

That is exactly what I have been trying just now. Both a FLAC at 192/24 and SoX.

The result is that a FLAC at 192/24 reproduces flawlessly, it resamples it automatically at 96Khz. And the result of enabling SoX and adjusting it to 96Khz is that then it reproduces it correctly without white noise (at any bit depth, 16, 24 and 32).

Thus, the issue is this automatic conversion to 96Khz probably, but it only happens with DST files, because with FLAC files at 192Khz it does not produce the issue.

The problem is that I cannot use SoX because it works for Stereo files, but not for multichannel files (it converts them to stereo). Also, it is not good to force resampling because it is applied to all audio files, not just the DST ones.

As a summary, there must be a glitch with this automatic conversion of the DSD to PCM at 96Khz. I think I will open a discussion issue in MPD.

RE: White noise playing DSD audio - jcucurull - 07-03-2024

I have opened a discussion in MPD forum: https://github.com/MusicPlayerDaemon/MPD/discussions/2066