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Bad quality sound on MoodeAudio 6.x
#41
If you noticed, it also sounds louder with EQ on. Anyway, I reinstalled Moode from scratch, even tried a different power supply (just in case), still getting same result.
I do strongly believe, this is incorrect behavior of EQ itself or its interaction with MPD, or the alsa, in general, as the datastream, which arrives at DAC's input, is already distorted after passing thru EQ filter.

UPDATE. I experimented with Flat setting; lowering all bands from default 66 to 56 removes any distortion, increasing it back to 66 and higher adds up distortion and it gets more and more prominent with sliders moved up.

Recorded with modified Flat EQ setting with all bands pumped up to 90, and ALSA volume set to just 40:

EQ distortion

As you can see, this has nothing to do with the DAC volume itself.  I suppose, the alsaeuqal is adding out-of-range gain to bands. Is there anything that can be done about it? Otherwise, this GEQ thing is no more than just a gimmick.
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#42
I don't use the equalizers so this is just a comment from the peanut gallery.

If you can find a better alternative in the world of FOSS software, let Tim know.

These ALSA equalizer plugins come from third parties and it looks like the underlying code hasn't had any changes for some time. You can trace the developments yourself:
Regards,
Kent
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#43
(06-25-2020, 11:31 AM)TheOldPresbyope Wrote: I don't use the equalizers so this is just a comment from the peanut gallery.

If you can find a better alternative in the world of FOSS software, let Tim know.

These ALSA equalizer plugins come from third parties and it looks like the underlying code hasn't had any changes for some time. You can trace the developments yourself:
Regards,
Kent
I'm just proving my words, that the issue really exists.

No, I'm not looking for an alternative, there isn't any, AFAIK.
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#44
It may exist for your particular configuration and environment but unless the issue can be reproduced by others it's strictly an isolated case.
Enjoy the Music!
moodeaudio.org | Mastodon Feed | GitHub
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#45
(06-25-2020, 01:01 PM)Tim Curtis Wrote: It may exist for your particular configuration and environment but unless the issue can be reproduced by others it's strictly an isolated case.

There's no particular configuration. Just standard settings from GUI, which I already described. Others are welcome to test as well, no objection here.

This can't be an isolated case, unless the DAC is defective, which is very unlikely (why would it expose issues with EQ only then).

I purchased brand new Raspberry PI 4, Hifiberry DAC+ Pro HW rev. 2.6, steel case. Assembled, downloaded latest Moode image, checked md5, written image to 4GB sdcard, connected it to HK980 Harman Kardon amp (reminder: during recording I connected it directly to my sound card line-in, as I already described), powered on the box, followed the setup guide. Nothing was changed from cli, only basic settings in GUI. Which particular configuration you'd like to have? I understand, that this is not a commercial project, and I don't have the right to ask for any fix/improvements, but if you're interested in making your product better, then I'm ready to collaborate, provide detailed configuration details, screenshots etc. Otherwise, thank you for your efforts, I'll just live with the fact, that EQ doesn't work, no worries, and sorry for bothering you.
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#46
I just noticed your addendum

Quote:UPDATE. I experimented with Flat setting; lowering all bands from default 66 to 56 removes any distortion, increasing it back to 66 and higher adds up distortion and it gets more and more prominent with sliders moved up.

It seems to me that this suggests an issue with the  predefined parameter values of some of the "named" filters and not with the graphical equalizer itself. 

The 0 - 100 range of the alsaequal values is seductively simple, but what does the quantity mean? From what you say above, I'd think it possible the straight-through "wire" setting (e.g., no modification of signal from input to output of the filter) is 50-...-50 rather than 100-...-100, but without an understanding of the underlying algorithm and its implementation in code, I'm just shooting in the dark.

Regards,
Kent
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#47
(06-25-2020, 02:01 PM)TheOldPresbyope Wrote: I just noticed your addendum

Quote:UPDATE. I experimented with Flat setting; lowering all bands from default 66 to 56 removes any distortion, increasing it back to 66 and higher adds up distortion and it gets more and more prominent with sliders moved up.

It seems to me that this suggests an issue with the  predefined parameter values of some of the "named" filters and not with the graphical equalizer itself. 

The 0 - 100 range of the alsaequal values is seductively simple, but what does the quantity mean? From what you say above, I'd think it possible the straight-through "wire" setting (e.g., no modification of signal from input to output of the filter) is 50-...-50 rather than 100-...-100, but without an understanding of the underlying algorithm and its implementation in code, I'm just shooting in the dark.

Regards,
Kent
Yeah, I thought of that, too. And from what I understand reading this forum, is that it was fine on Moode 5.
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#48
(06-24-2020, 03:53 PM)AlexTee Wrote: Here is the same fragment, recorded via Line-in of my Creative Audigy RX sound card using Audacity software. The one with EQ on has distinct sandy clipping in the middle of fragment. Just to be on the same page, can you confirm you hear that?

EQ on
EQ off

If you confirm you do, but it is not present on your setup, then I don't know which component to blame. Do you have same setting (levels) for the EQ?

Nope no obvious distortion here.
Listened to them on my desktop PC to a Cyrus DAC outputting to a desktop amp driving ATC monitors and on Moode to a Topping D50s DAC outputting to an integrated amp driving Monitor Audio floorstanders.
No obvious clipping audibly but there is mild clipping visible in audacity (see 1.390s & 1.455s) no doubt caused by overdriven eq causing it to sound a bit harsher and more compressed.
[Image: Screenshot-from-2020-06-25-15-12-42.png]

EQ-on will be louder if you're boosting frequency bands and that might be overloading an input in your chain causing you to hear distortion out of your amplifier/speakers.
If sound quality is your goal all I can advise is don't be futzing about with EQ. You're actively reducing the quality of the original source material by doing that, in most cases you're not going to do a better job than the mastering engineer who mastered the music you're listening to with a basic EQ plugin.

There's a reason why higher-end audio gear doesn't come with eq or tone controls, a purer chain = better signal.
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#49
(06-25-2020, 02:24 PM)vinnn Wrote:
(06-24-2020, 03:53 PM)AlexTee Wrote: Here is the same fragment, recorded via Line-in of my Creative Audigy RX sound card using Audacity software. The one with EQ on has distinct sandy clipping in the middle of fragment. Just to be on the same page, can you confirm you hear that?

EQ on
EQ off

If you confirm you do, but it is not present on your setup, then I don't know which component to blame. Do you have same setting (levels) for the EQ?

Nope no apparent distortion here. Listened to it on my PC running Fedora to a Cyrus DAC outputting to a desktop amp driving ATC monitors and on Moode outputting to my Hi-Fi system's integrated amp driving Monitor Audio floorstanders.

No clipping apparent audibly or visually in audacity either.
[Image: Screenshot-from-2020-06-25-15-12-42.png]

EQ-on will be louder if you're boosting frequecy bands and that might be overloading an input in your chain causing you to hear distortion out of you amplifier.
If sound quality is your goal all I can advise is don't be futzing about with EQ. You're actively reducing the quality of the source material by doing that, in most cases you're not going to do a better job than the mastering engineer who mastered the music you're listening to with a basic EQ plugin.

Are you serious now? You don't hear the sandy distortion? Please, put on your headphones.

Did you ever read my posts carefully regarding the recording technique and ALSA volume levels? Please, re-read, otherwise you're missing lots of info.

Who else can confirm they don't hear that? Smile

What are you trying to see on the graphic? It is not heavy clipping, it is just a distorted datastream, fed to DAC input, that's not an issue with analog output! Sorry, I might have expressed myself wrong. Let's avoid clipping term and just call it distortion, ok? Now, you wanna hear the heavy distortion? Check out the third file, I've posted above.
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#50
(06-25-2020, 02:34 PM)AlexTee Wrote: Are you serious now? You don't hear the sandy distortion? Please, put on your headphones.

Did you ever read my posts carefully regarding the recording technique and ALSA volume levels? Please, re-read, otherwise you're missing lots of info.

Who else can confirm they don't hear that? Smile

What are you trying to see on the graphic? It is not heavy clipping, it is just a distorted datastream, fed to DAC input, that's not an issue with analog output! Sorry, I might have expressed myself wrong. Let's avoid clipping term and just call it distortion, ok? Now, you wanna hear the heavy distortion? Check out the third file, I've posted above.

Apologies if I missed some details there, didn't read through the entire thread tbh. Also I accidentally posted too early and amended my post seemingly whilst you were replying to me. Smile
But yeah there is some mild clipping apparent if I crank it, more apparent through my AKG cans but this appears to be the clipping in my screenshot, not all out distortion.

Still that would be fitting with the large 8db boost at 16KHz (multiplied by over 6x!).
If you want to play with EQ without overdriving the signal, cut don't boost.
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