11-23-2024, 05:11 PM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2024, 05:11 PM by Calaat.)
Hi,
I have a doubt related with DSD
I have buy a DSD album from Qobuz, Let it Bleed, to be sure the source was legit and really what i espected. It is DSD 64.
I have test, and it is recognise by Moode as DSD64.
I have read that there is not possible to play DSD using a DAC with the Pi, because ALSA drivers. I use an IQaudio Pro, which is hardware capable to decode DSD.
so, when I see the playback info it says it is DSD and it is decode to PCM 24bit - 352.8Mhz.
It is been played as DSD? There are a transcode in some less quality?
I'm just asking, i'm very pleased with the quality i have in my setup and i think it is quite enough to my needs.
11-23-2024, 07:29 PM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2024, 07:45 PM by Nutul.)
(11-23-2024, 05:11 PM)Calaat Wrote: (...) I use an IQaudio Pro, which is hardware capable to decode DSD.
so, when I see the playback info it says it is DSD and it is decode to PCM 24bit - 352.8Mhz.
To play DSD the following has to be matched:
1. your device MUST be able to decode DSD natively, and report it to the system
(you can check this in the bootom of the popup you sent a picture of, under AUDIO DEVICE, Formats, you should see something like DSD_U32_BE)
2. in the MPD settings, under DSD support, "Native DSD" has to be selected in the drop-down; otherwise MPD will transcode it to linear PCM
ETA
If everything is correct, the audio information should read DSD in all the three fields:
Source format
Decoded to
Output format
11-23-2024, 07:51 PM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2024, 08:04 PM by Calaat.)
(11-23-2024, 07:29 PM)Nutul Wrote:
(11-23-2024, 05:11 PM)Calaat Wrote: (...) I use an IQaudio Pro, which is hardware capable to decode DSD.
so, when I see the playback info it says it is DSD and it is decode to PCM 24bit - 352.8Mhz.
To play DSD the following has to be matched:
1. your device MUST be able to decode DSD natively, and report it to the system
(you can check this in the bootom of the popup you sent a picture of, under AUDIO DEVICE, Formats, you should see something like DSD_U32_BE)
2. in the MPD settings, under DSD support, "Native DSD" has to be selected in the drop-down; otherwise MPD will transcode it to linear PCM
ETA
If everything is correct, the audio information should read DSD in all the three fields:
Source format
Decoded to
Output format
Ok, so, my device is capable (in theory, i mean maybe nit is not but, in the specs of the raspberry foundation: Audiophile TI Burr Brown 32-bit/384kHz DAC (TI PCM5242)) and i have DSD native selected.
Where, or how i can see if my device is reporting it?
I have buy a DSD album from Qobuz, Let it Bleed, to be sure the source was legit and really what i espected. It is DSD 64.
I have test, and it is recognise by Moode as DSD64.
I have read that there is not possible to play DSD using a DAC with the Pi, because ALSA drivers. I use an IQaudio Pro, which is hardware capable to decode DSD.
so, when I see the playback info it says it is DSD and it is decode to PCM 24bit - 352.8Mhz.
It is been played as DSD? There are a transcode in some less quality?
I'm just asking, i'm very pleased with the quality i have in my setup and i think it is quite enough to my needs.
1. There are two transmission formats for DSD. The first is Native DSD bitstream which is a 1-bit pulse-density modulated stream. The second is DSD over PCM (DoP) which encapsulates a DSD bitstream in specially flagged PCM packets.
2. A DAC chip must explicitly support either Native DSD or DoP in order to decode DSD format. This would be stated in the data sheet for the chip or by the manufacturer of the audio device that uses the chip.
3. The TI PCM5xxx family of chips which are used in a lot of audio HAT boards for the Pi including the IQaudIO DAC Pro can only decode PCM format thus the player needs to perform DSD to PCM on-the-fly conversion.
4. Moode MPD Config has a setting to enable DoP but if this format which contains ultra high frequency DSD data is sent to a PCM only chip the sound output may be harmful.
(i) help Native DSD: If the audio device reports that it supports Native DSD then MPD will send the unaltered DSD bitstream to the device otherwise MPD will perform DSD to PCM on-the-fly conversion. DSD over PCM (DoP): There is no way to detect if an audio device supports DoP so only enable this if you are certain that the device supports it otherwise the encapsulated DSD bitstream may cause loud or unpredictable distortion.
5. Native DSD is only supported over the USB interface and only with specific DAC chips that support DSD decoding for example ESS9028/38.
6. Since DoP is a PCM format it can be transmitted over the I2S interface but only a handful of I2S audio devices support it for example the discontinued Allo Katana DAC and the still in production Audiophonics ES9038 DAC. Both of these DAC boards use the ESS9028 or 38 chip. There are also ESS based boards and other products from IanCanada that support Native DSD and DoP.
I have buy a DSD album from Qobuz, Let it Bleed, to be sure the source was legit and really what i espected. It is DSD 64.
I have test, and it is recognise by Moode as DSD64.
I have read that there is not possible to play DSD using a DAC with the Pi, because ALSA drivers. I use an IQaudio Pro, which is hardware capable to decode DSD.
so, when I see the playback info it says it is DSD and it is decode to PCM 24bit - 352.8Mhz.
It is been played as DSD? There are a transcode in some less quality?
I'm just asking, i'm very pleased with the quality i have in my setup and i think it is quite enough to my needs.
1. There are two transmission formats for DSD. The first is Native DSD bitstream which is a 1-bit pulse-density modulated stream. The second is DSD over PCM (DoP) which encapsulates a DSD bitstream in specially flagged PCM packets.
2. A DAC chip must explicitly support either Native DSD or DoP in order to decode DSD format. This would be stated in the data sheet for the chip or by the manufacturer of the audio device that uses the chip.
3. The TI PCM5xxx family of chips which are used in a lot of audio HAT boards for the Pi including the IQaudIO DAC Pro can only decode PCM format thus the player needs to perform DSD to PCM on-the-fly conversion.
4. Moode MPD Config has a setting to enable DoP but if this format which contains ultra high frequency DSD data is sent to a PCM only chip the sound output may be harmful.
(i) help Native DSD: If the audio device reports that it supports Native DSD then MPD will send the unaltered DSD bitstream to the device otherwise MPD will perform DSD to PCM on-the-fly conversion. DSD over PCM (DoP): There is no way to detect if an audio device supports DoP so only enable this if you are certain that the device supports it otherwise the encapsulated DSD bitstream may cause loud or unpredictable distortion.
5. Native DSD is only supported over the USB interface and only with specific DAC chips that support DSD decoding for example ESS9028/38.
6. Since DoP is a PCM format it can be transmitted over the I2S interface but only a handful of I2S audio devices support it for example the discontinued Allo Katana DAC and the still in production Audiophonics ES9038 DAC. Both of these DAC boards use the ESS9028 or 38 chip. There are also ESS based boards and other products from IanCanada that support Native DSD and DoP.
Thank you. As always. I'm very pleased with your answer and everything is very clear for me now.
so, if my DAC can transcode DSD to PCM at 24bits and 385Mhz, which is perfect for me, because i don't need more, and the quality is awsome just like that, i can use it with no problems and enjoy my setup? I'm certain?
I will buy an Audiophonic in the future but i was afraid because i didn't understand a lot of things in the first place, as you already know.
Yeah, everything is clear now. The answer if in the Tim Curtis answer.
anyways i tried DoP, just for the joy to try and it does not make any sound. I asume it just can't play it.
Thx both of you, i have more clear the limits of my setup (which are just no DSD native play and i can live whith that)
Right. For USB DAC's you will see "DSD_U32_BE" format if it supports Native DSD, but for DAC's either USB or I2S there is no format indicator for DoP support since its a PCM format.
I have understand a lot of things. Thank you so much.
I'm very happy and thankfull with you two.
Even if it can't do DSD native, my setup is just what i need and now, i know what i need to upgrade.
So i can rest and enjoy what i have because it is quite amazing.
