[SOLVED] Stuttering MQA via USB DAC

[zainframe]

Hi good people,

Need some help on the MQA stuttering issue I'm suffering.

I have connected my Topping E50 to a Pi 3B+ (with official Pi 7inch LCD) and running the latest image of
Moode Audio (7.4.1 fresh image) and 'controlling' it via Bubbleupnp. I am suffering from 2 issues:

1) Some tracks marked as Master Audio on Tidal does not light up the MQA label
on the E50 screen. The MQA label will light up when using Windows/Tidal app. I could be wrong but I think the newer MQA tracks light up the MQA label but older ones dont.

2) MQA tracks which can be detected (MQA label lights up on DAC) will stutter (they will sound like
scratched CDs)- when this happen the E50 screen will briefly show PCM
and back to MQA.

Below are some details on my setup/testing:
- I am running on 5Ghz wifi with excellent signal, Internet connectivity and generally the whole network is working fine. I have also tried connecting via Ethernet (no difference).
- I am using separate 5V power supplies for the Pi and E50 units (7inch LCD powered by the same 5V official Pi adapter as the Pi3 but with a splitter).
- I have tested various USB cables to connect the PI and E50 including the one provided in the E50 package. One is only 6inch long (that's what she said)
- MPD correctly detects the USB DAC as 'E50'.
- As much as I can, I made sure that the stream sent out front the Pi to E50 is bit perfect- no resampling etc (otherwise I should have not gotten MQA at all).
- Nothing else is connected to the Pi USB ports.
- I have tested the E50 output with 3 different amps (and headphones) so I am assuming this issue is not due to the topping analog output.
- DAC works fine on Windows Tidal app (all MQA detected and no stuttering).
- Audio buffer set to 64MB, Output buffer to 256MB.
- CPU Governor set to 'Performance' - no difference when set to 'on-demand', kernel to 32bits (I think the stuttering is worse in 64bits).
- DAC has the latest firmware.
- CPU usage is very low when the stuttering happens.
- HDMI output is disabled.
- Both Direct:hw & Default(plughw) ALSA output mode have the same results.

I cannot test/compare with other DACs since I dont have any other MQA capable DAC.

Worst case scenario, is there anyway I can 'disable' sending MQA stream to the DAC and stick with hifi quality for all the Tidal tracks?
Would a Pi4 with its dedicated USB bus solve this issue? anybody has any experience on this?

I'm quite new at this- any testing advise, logs to check etc is very much welcomed.

Cheers everyone and thanks in advance for not starting another MQA war!

[grasshopper]

Hi,

MoOde doesn't support MQA, can't you choose to play the non MQA version of the album, isn't there normally an option to play a 16/44.1 version?

[zainframe]

Hi,

MoOde doesn't support MQA, can't you choose to play the non MQA version of the album, isn't there normally an option to play a 16/44.1 version?

It passes through bit perfect stream and if the DAC supports full decoding/unfolding it would work - at least it works for me since the DAC is showing MQA stream coming in from the USB input. Seems to  also work for this guy - https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophil...proven_to/

To be clear - I am assuming MQA works because the DAC seems to be detecting the bit perfect MQA stream as shown on it's display.

Yes, I guess I have to manually choose the non-MQA versions of the tracks now to avoid playing MQA and suffer the stuttering, at least for the time being. 

Thanks

[TheOldPresbyope]

@zainframe

More precisely, moOde "doesn't support MQA" means it does not unfold MQA-encoded material. With proper settings, it will pass MQA-encoded material through to a MQA-capable DAC without modification.

Have you tried playing some local MQA-encoded tracks to test your settings? The 2L.no site, for example, offers a large number of sample tracks in a variety of encodings including MQA. They are free for you to download and use. They're my go-to source for high-bitrate test tracks.

Regards,
Kent

[zainframe]

@zainframe

More precisely, moOde "doesn't support MQA" means it does not unfold MQA-encoded material. With proper settings, it will pass MQA-encoded material through to a MQA-capable DAC without modification.

Have you tried playing some local MQA-encoded tracks to test your settings? The 2L.no site, for example, offers a large number of sample tracks in a variety of encodings including MQA. They are free for you to download and use. They're my go-to source for high-bitrate test tracks.

Regards,
Kent

Hi,

I tried downloading a few MQA tracks (thanks for pointing out the download website), put them into my NAS/DLNA server and run it through Bubbleupnp - same issue where the track will sometimes stutter and when this happens the MQA light on my DAC will turn off and on again like it's loosing the MQA signal.

Thanks

[TheOldPresbyope]

@zainframe

More precisely, moOde "doesn't support MQA" means it does not unfold MQA-encoded material. With proper settings, it will pass MQA-encoded material through to a MQA-capable DAC without modification.

Have you tried playing some local MQA-encoded tracks to test your settings? The 2L.no site, for example, offers a large number of sample tracks in a variety of encodings including MQA. They are free for you to download and use. They're my go-to source for high-bitrate test tracks.

Regards,
Kent

Hi,

I tried downloading a few MQA tracks (thanks for pointing out the download website), put them into my NAS/DLNA server and run it through Bubbleupnp - same issue where the track will sometimes stutter and when this happens the MQA light on my DAC will turn off and on again like it's loosing the MQA signal.

Thanks

Ok, but by “local” I meant playing the sample MQA files from the uSD card or a USB thumb drive attached directly to the RPi. This would eliminate the NAS/UPNP server, the LAN, BubbleUPnP, and the UPNP renderer from the equation temporarily.

Regards,
Kent

[zainframe]

@zainframe

More precisely, moOde "doesn't support MQA" means it does not unfold MQA-encoded material. With proper settings, it will pass MQA-encoded material through to a MQA-capable DAC without modification.

Have you tried playing some local MQA-encoded tracks to test your settings? The 2L.no site, for example, offers a large number of sample tracks in a variety of encodings including MQA. They are free for you to download and use. They're my go-to source for high-bitrate test tracks.

Regards,
Kent

Hi,

I tried downloading a few MQA tracks (thanks for pointing out the download website), put them into my NAS/DLNA server and run it through Bubbleupnp - same issue where the track will sometimes stutter and when this happens the MQA light on my DAC will turn off and on again like it's loosing the MQA signal.

Thanks

Ok, but by “local” I meant playing the sample MQA files from the uSD card or a USB thumb drive attached directly to the RPi. This would eliminate the NAS/UPNP server, the LAN, BubbleUPnP, and the UPNP renderer from the equation temporarily.

Regards,
Kent

Hi,

I've loaded the MQAs into the Pi's local microSD card - same results  . I've successfully played MQA on the same DAC connected to Windows and the same Pi unit (via methods not supported in this forum). 

Any advise for me to try/configure/dabble?

Thanks!!

[TheOldPresbyope]

@zainframe

Candidly, I was hoping your issue could be traced to the LAN, servers, etc., because then I could make some practical suggestions for them.

Since it appears to relate directly to the E50 and moOde (plus RPi3B+ of course) there's little I can suggest other than to double check you don't have some content-altering settings in play. I have no MQA-capable DAC to test with so there's nothing I can "try at home." 

When I search the InterWeb™ with phrases like "MQA stutter" I get hits which suggest timing related-problems (clocking, buffer underruns, etc.). There seems to have been some related posts on the audioscience.review.com forum.


Substituting in an RPi4B is a bit of a Hail Mary pass but certainly if you have one try it.

Regards,
Kent

[zainframe]

@zainframe

Candidly, I was hoping your issue could be traced to the LAN, servers, etc., because then I could make some practical suggestions for them.

Since it appears to relate directly to the E50 and moOde (plus RPi3B+ of course) there's little I can suggest other than to double check you don't have some content-altering settings in play. I have no MQA-capable DAC to test with so there's nothing I can "try at home." 

When I search the InterWeb™ with phrases like "MQA stutter" I get hits which suggest timing related-problems (clocking, buffer underruns, etc.). There seems to have been some related posts on the audioscience.review.com forum.


Substituting in an RPi4B is a bit of a Hail Mary pass but certainly if you have one try it.

Regards,
Kent

I was thinking it could be USB jittering issue due to the Pi3 USB sharing the same bus as Ethernet etc but since network is not being used (I am on wifi anyways) the USB is probably using the BUS exclusively (not sure about this though). No issues with DSD even the high bitrate ones so it cannot be bandwidth related.

Is there anything I can test/configure on the MPD side? It looks like the DAC keeps loosing the MQA signal for split seconds- anything I can check to ensure I'm sending bit perfect to the DAC?

Thanks

[TheOldPresbyope]

@zainframe

Have you enabled MPD's verbose log level and looked at the log output (/var/log/mpd/log) to see if there are any hints of under-runs or other suspicious events when you experience stutters?


I think you need to find some "birds of a feather". If there aren't other Topping E50 users on this forum then I'd go looking on the forums at, say, diyaudio.com or audiosciencereview.com. If they report successful MQA playback on RPi SBCs then one can get into what is different in their setups.

Regards,
Kent