Radio station bitrates correct?

[buckaroo]

Several times now I've been listening to a stream that sounds really good, but then will look at the bitrate and it will be down around, say, 96 kbps, which seems unlikely (most recently the normal, non-320 BBC 3 stream). Even a VBR stream hovering around that shouldn't sound as good as these streams do. Is this just a new codec that Moode doesn't know how to interpret? How are these steams so good? Any theories?

[Tim Curtis]

What version of moode?
Built in radio stations or one's you have added?

[buckaroo]

What version of moode?
Built in radio stations or one's you have added?

I've seen it in both version 8 and version 9, and in both built-in stations (in this case, BBC 3, the non-320 one, which is currently showing AAC-LC 96kbps PCM 32/48kHz) and ones I added (WSM, which currently shows VBR, but under 8 showed 96 as well).

It's not a problem for me, I just thought it was interesting.

[the_bertrum]

How are these steams so good? Any theories?

The audiophile cynic in me says its because most folk actually can't tell the difference between bitrates once they pass a threshold of "enough" (which is surprisingly low) unless they have some other information to guide them such as a bitrate display.

When I'm less cynical, I'll accept that some folk might be able to hear the difference, but that I've never been in the presence of such skill.

In short, if it sounds good, don't fret about the bitrate, just enjoy the music

[Tim Curtis]

The bitrate shown for the built-in stations is hard coded in the radio station table. If you edit a station or click Audio info for the station the bitrate is one of the items in the list.

For stations that you add, if a bitrate is not entered then the bitrate shown comes from MPD's snapshot of the stream rate when it starts playing it. This rate can vary.

[buckaroo]

The audiophile cynic in me says its because most folk actually can't tell the difference between bitrates once they pass a threshold of "enough" (which is surprisingly low) unless they have some other information to guide them such as a bitrate display.

When I'm less cynical, I'll accept that some folk might be able to hear the difference, but that I've never been in the presence of such skill.

Yeah, i'm usually with you in that I can't tell the difference between, say, 256 kbps (or even lower characteristic bitrate if VBR) and lossless. Once we're getting down into the double-digit bitrates, though, I can (or at least *could* with the older codecs) hear a distinct drop in quality, characterized by muddiness and swishing-swirling sound in the sibilants and other higher frequencies. Almost like the audio equivalent of JPEG artifacts. I haven't listened to low-bitrate stuff in a long time, so it could be that the codecs really are that much better now, but I think I'd likely hear a drop in 96kbps material if really was playing back at that bitrate.

The bitrate shown for the built-in stations is hard coded in the radio station table. If you edit a station or click Audio info for the station the bitrate is one of the items in the list.

For stations that you add, if a bitrate is not entered then the bitrate shown comes from MPD's snapshot of the stream rate when it starts playing it. This rate can vary.

Makes sense. I'll double check the hard-coding.

[the_bertrum]

The audiophile cynic in me says its because most folk actually can't tell the difference between bitrates once they pass a threshold of "enough" (which is surprisingly low) unless they have some other information to guide them such as a bitrate display.

When I'm less cynical, I'll accept that some folk might be able to hear the difference, but that I've never been in the presence of such skill.

Yeah, i'm usually with you in that I can't tell the difference between, say, 256 kbps (or even lower characteristic bitrate if VBR) and lossless. Once we're getting down into the double-digit bitrates, though, I can (or at least *could* with the older codecs) hear a distinct drop in quality, characterized by muddiness and swishing-swirling sound in the sibilants and other higher frequencies. Almost like the audio equivalent of JPEG artifacts. I haven't listened to low-bitrate stuff in a long time, so it could be that the codecs really are that much better now, but I think I'd likely hear a drop in 96kbps material if really was playing back at that bitrate.

The bitrate shown for the built-in stations is hard coded in the radio station table. If you edit a station or click Audio info for the station the bitrate is one of the items in the list.

For stations that you add, if a bitrate is not entered then the bitrate shown comes from MPD's snapshot of the stream rate when it starts playing it. This rate can vary.

Makes sense. I'll double check the hard-coding.

Yeah, there's definitely a threshold of "enough" and for me that must be somewhere under 128, I've not made a study of anything below that personally.
With respect to the BBC streams, if you take the "Rate" and "Audio Format" out of the station info, MPD reports VBR, so 96 will be the target rate that could be higher when the music deserves it.