Advice needed for an USB DAC

[TheOldPresbyope]

I think I'll stick with my Allo Shanti then, even if it's overkill for just powering the Raspberry

Do you also happen to have a plain old official Raspberry Pi power supply? If so, I would suggest that before you buy yet another power supply, you see if you can discern any difference between using it and the Allo Shanti in your new setup.

Regards,
Kent

PS - be sure check out the video about grounding in audio over at amirm’s Audio Science Review. Grounding issues can spoil the performance of any system of multiple components no matter the quality of the components.

[romain]

I think I'll stick with my Allo Shanti then, even if it's overkill for just powering the Raspberry

Do you also happen to have a plain old official Raspberry Pi power supply? If so, I would suggest that before you buy yet another power supply, you see if you can discern any difference between using it and the Allo Shanti in your new setup.

Regards,
Kent

PS - be sure check out the video about grounding in audio over at amirm’s Audio Science Review. Grounding issues can spoil the performance of any system of multiple components no matter the quality of the components.

Yes Kent, I have an official Raspberry Pi power supply. I will compare it to the Shanti. ASR's video about grounding bookmarked.
Thanks,
Romain

[nosferatu_cat]

@romain 

I believe in objective measures of performance so I'm a big fan of folks like amirm and his Audio Science Review site.

It's been my experience that I'm likely to be more than satisfied with the audio performance of any product which appears on amirm's growing list of "recommended" DACs. (There used to be a convenient interactive page where one could search his database for recommended DACs by cost, interface, etc., but I can't find it now.) My selection process consists of finding a DAC on the list which has the features I require and costs no more than I'm willing to pay.

I have the USB-driven Khadas Tone1 board, actually, not the Tone2. I'm quite happy with the Tone1 sonically but it is a bare board; no enclosure, display, etc. I also recently purchased the I2S-driven Inno-Maker HiFi DAC Pro HAT which incorporates the same DAC chip as the Tone1 does. I'm quite happy with it too, although again it's just a board. Both boards have been measured and recommended by amirm and both boards cost less than US$100. Both boards work fine with moOde of course.

From what I've read, the USB-driven Topping E30 II should be just as satisfactory to me as the above. Based on a (pair of)  different DAC chip, it is a complete package with enclosure, front panel display, multiple input paths, and even a remote control, and yet costs just US$150. That's probably the most I'd be willing to pay given how well even less costly DACs perform.

The USB-driven Khadas Tone2 has the same DAC chip as the two boards I have but otherwise is a different animal in terms of its enclosure, audio circuitry, etc. There are lots of nice things to say about it but I would have to think hard about spending US$250 given the quality of the rest of my system(s).

As Tim has mentioned, there are other possibilities. Be sure you can have the ability to evaluate and return or exchange if you're hesitant.


Eschew audiophilia nervosa and enjoy the music.

Regards,
Kent

PS - for me, software volume control is just fine even though it's not a "bit perfect" process, same for SoX resampling, and for transcoding DSD to PCM (for example, because I want to use crossfeed processing with my headphones or software volume control with DSD-encoded tracks). There was a time in my life when I had golden ears and might possibly have discerned audible differences with those techniques. Even that were true then, and I'm not sure it was, it certainly isn't true now..

Agree on ASR.  Measurements are the best decision support tool available.  The semantics of subjective audio reviews drive me nuts.  I've been interested in audio since I was in high school in the early '60s.  Don't forget the limits of human hearing.  There are a lot of audio devices that have noise and distortion well below the threshold of the human ear.

[nosferatu_cat]

Have a look at Topping and S.M.S.L USB devices. They seem to be pretty popular and are generally available on Amazon. Best to buy from a source that offers unconditional return in case you don't like the product.

I just got an SMSL SU-1 currently about $90.  According to ASR measurements it's equal to many DACs in the $500 category.  It supports MQA but you're under no obligation to play any music that supports it.    It has the more or less standard USB, Toslink, and SPDIF inputs and RCA out.  It's tiny, not much bigger than a Rasperry Pi.  My subjective impression, FWIW, is that it's not there.  It just passes the signal to an amplifier as a DAC should.

[romain]

Have a look at Topping and S.M.S.L USB devices. They seem to be pretty popular and are generally available on Amazon. Best to buy from a source that offers unconditional return in case you don't like the product.

I just got an SMSL SU-1 currently about $90.  According to ASR measurements it's equal to many DACs in the $500 category.  It supports MQA but you're under no obligation to play any music that supports it.    It has the more or less standard USB, Toslink, and SPDIF inputs and RCA out.  It's tiny, not much bigger than a Rasperry Pi.  My subjective impression, FWIW, is that it's not there.  It just passes the signal to an amplifier as a DAC should.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[TheOldPresbyope]

@nosferatu_cat 

All that performance in a nice case for about the same as I paid for my bare Khadas Tone1 a few years ago. Sweet.

I did note the sparse technical specifications for the SU-1 state

Power Consumption:<5W

Standby power:<0.1W

The standby power number is negligible.

OTOH, at 5VDC the power consumption number suggests the maximum current draw is < 1A without giving any further details. Could be 0.99A and still be < 1A.

For most Pi models, the maximum current we can draw from the USB ports is 1.2A in total, so if you are using more than one USB port, you may want to monitor your Pi's behavior. moOde now helpfully reports in its System information log if throttling has occurred (although I'm uncertain if it is only reported if it occurs during startup) while undervoltage messages show up in the Linux system log.

This is a limitation of the Pi's USB subsystem and applies even if the power supply can sustain much higher current draws.

Full disclosure: 'Suffering' undervoltage events and even throttling isn't the end of the world. Depending on your circumstances, you may or may not notice any audible effect. YMMV, as they say.
 
As an aside, I read through the posts from readers in the ASR thread for this DAC. Even on ASR, some of the exchanges were just plain silly. However, one useful question which got asked several times but which I didn't see answered is: does the SU-1 automatically switch between the USB and S/PDIF inputs and, if not, how does one do  that? As you build up your own experience with this DAC I'm sure we'd like to see a SU-1 thread in this subforum.


Regards,
Kent

[Nutul]

(...) does the SU-1 automatically switch between the USB and S/PDIF inputs and, if not, how does one do  that? (...)

Doesn't it have a button on the front panel to switch among inputs? Or was the question such that a non-native couldn't get?

[TheOldPresbyope]

@Nutul 

What, you mean the rectangular button helpfully labelled "switch" in the break-out picture in the product description on the Shenzhen Audio website? I dunno. Could be input selector; could be power.

I was so taken by the explanation of MQA in that same product description that I didn't spend a lot of time with the rest of it.

Regards,
Kent

[Nutul]

@Nutul 

What, you mean the rectangular button helpfully labelled "switch" in the break-out picture in the product description on the Shenzhen Audio website? I dunno. Could be input selector; could be power.

I was so taken by the explanation of MQA in that same product description that I didn't spend a lot of time with the rest of it.

Regards,
Kent

Looks to me that short-press => source selection, long-press => power-off.

ETA
I also found this quick review of the SU-1, by Randy... ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUf0heY1...apaudioman

[the_bertrum]

I was so taken by the explanation of MQA in that same product description that I didn't spend a lot of time with the rest of it.

What new kind of madness is this?  "[MQA CD] can restore the original high-resolution signal heard in the studio".  From a CD.  Seriously, anyone falling for that?  It's a real shame because it looks like and absolute dream of a device, then they sully it it with such nonsense.  I was almost ready to lay aside my prejudice about about buying any device with an MQA light on it, but after reading all that I need to go and have a bath to feel clean again.