[PROBLEM] Internet Radio Blocking

[feh123]

Hi A very much off topic issue that I would like to understand. I have posted before about my use of MoodeAudio to listen to internet radio stations broadcasting hi res (for the medium!) classical music.

Because to the monetisation needs of some of these radio stations, Sonos, my go to audio system to listen to them is of limited use now - the radio stations are no longer there!

MoodeAudio has proved to be a solution for this. I setup a raspberry pi moode device, add a HiFiberry Digi2 HAT, take the digital feed to a Cambridge Audio DAC and take that feed as an in-line audio component to my Sonos. It works well and as I can add more stations to Moode just via a url I get all the stations I need. Brilliant!

The problem:  doing all this does hit an issue with some of the BBC stations - they have rights issues and often block the broadcast. But MoodeAudio with it's url based on the live.akamaized.net address very rarely gets blocked. I am guessing but I think Akamai have a deal with the BBC. When it does get blocked it's clearly an important broadcast that it must get from others and probably that causes the rights issue.

However I can copy and paste this address into many other devices that run internet radio and there it gets blocked! So using the same url and the same wifi I can have moode playing a radio station while on a second device the feed is blocked!

How do they distinguish between the two? Apologies for the long post and it's rather unusual question but given streaming hi res audio is so good I would like to understand what's happening! Perhaps I need a license to Akamai!

[Tim Curtis]

What are the other devices and what audio player software is being used on them?

[TheOldPresbyope]

This is conjecture on my part.

I suspect the answer lies in the User Agent (UA) information sent from whatever client---moOde (via an MPD plugin) is one such UA---is trying to access the stream from a remote server via the HTTP protocol. 

I've never sniffed my LAN traffic to see what different players say about themselves so I won't hazard a guess as to which HTTP header fields or URL parameters might be the "culprit" for a given Internet station.

Doesn't seem like a moOde support issue.

Regards,
Kent

[feh123]

Tim CurtisWhat are the other devices and what audio player software is being used on them?



I have two devices - a "Pirate Radio" and a Ocean Digital WR-23F. The Pirate Radio was a kit available in the UK from the PiHUT (now discontinued). It's based on a RPi zero with a HAT containing a I2S DAC and stereo amp. I think the software is just an MPD. I give it url's via a m3u file.

The Ocean Digital uses Skytune as it's radio source.

Neither are hifi - Ocean Digital have some more sophisticated radios but they are more expensive! 

I am using Play 5's second generation with the new Sonos app - this more where my big money was spent.

My Moode can take it's HiFiberry Digi feed either in-line to the Sonos or to a nice Naim unit with it's own DAC.

[feh123]

This is conjecture on my part.

I suspect the answer lies in the User Agent  (UA) information sent from whatever client---moOde (via an MPD plugin) is one such UA---is trying to access  the stream from a remote server via the HTTP protocol. 

I've never sniffed my LAN traffic to see what different players say about themselves so I won't hazard a guess as to which HTTP header fields or URL parameters might be the "culprit" for a given Internet station.

Doesn't seem like a moOde support issue.

Regards,
Kent

Thanks for the idea. It sounds very pausible that there is something else that is sent when this connection is made. I will check out UA and how to interrogate LAN traffic. I am just curious!

I agree it's not a moOde issue and your reply is the sort of idea I was hoping for. I assume from the replies from you and Tim that moOde does not have an akamai key that unlocks the BBC connection (and thanks to both of you for responding).

Yours

Fred

[the_bertrum]

One thing that Akamai did for us when we used them at work was to prevent multiple connections from the same source IP, could be that's what's getting triggered here.

[TheOldPresbyope]

One thing that Akamai did for us when we used them at work was to prevent multiple connections from the same source IP, could be that's what's getting triggered here.

That's an interesting tidbit. And of course all the OPs players are going through the same router with NAT addressing on the client side an a single IP presented to the Internet.

The good news: the older I get the more I learn. The bad news: the more I learn, the more I forget. Sigh.

Regards,
Kent

[feh123]

One thing that Akamai did for us when we used them at work was to prevent multiple connections from the same source IP, could be that's what's getting triggered here.

Thanks a lot for responding with this information. Unfortunately I was fixated on putting the akamai addresses on my Pirate Radio and comparing that to my RPI MoOde. The Ocean Digital using Skytune does not really count because I do not know what address they used.
[Incidientally the skytune website has a FAQ page and there it explains some of the problems with the BBC radios - Akamai must have a good relationship with the BBC for it's BBC url's to keep working.]

My home wifi has a fixed IP address from my ISP and no VPN so I am sure that address plus other UA(?) could be seen by the akamai server.


I said unfortunately because my Pirate Radio has a good Speaker and I take it travelling with me. To make it work everywhere I have two small travel routers that create AP's that I include in the wpa_supplicant.conf file on my Pirate Radio. This wpa_supplicant.conf also contains my home wifi that the MoOde uses. I never checked to see what wifi my Pirate Radio was connected to and one travel router was working when I did the comparison! My travel routers use VPN's (and UK servers) - so if the Pirate Radio connected to one of them then I am sure it would have had a different IP address. What a pity! 

Having said that it is highly likely it connected through the home wifi and therfore had the same address. So your explanation works.

Next time I get a blocked BBC radio I will try the Pirate Radio connected to the VPN and see what happens. Thanks again.

[the_bertrum]

Also remember that Akamai are very aware of VPN end points and will happily assume that a VPN end point in the UK is probably not originating from the UK and so may apply geofencing accordingly.

[feh123]

Also remember that Akamai are very aware of VPN end points and will happily assume that a VPN end point in the UK is probably not originating from the UK and so may apply geofencing accordingly.

Yes that is another problem that I face. The VPN via a travel router primarily gives me some extra security when joining unknown wifi's. But the UK server did help with the BBC - it clearly wasn't an option that they liked.
The BBC state they just want to be sure internet users have a BBC licence but getting a system in place that works seems some way off.
"Hi Res" internet radio streaming seems to be going backwards - even Sonos appears to be retreating. I do think it's missed opportunity.

Yours

Fred