[PROBLEM] RPi B4 slowdown with using USB 3.0

[STUDI]

Raspberry Pi 4B, marked on the PCB with the date 2019. The use of USB 3.0 ports causes a drastic slowdown of this computer. Even a mouse stick causes a practical loss of responsiveness. Connecting mass storage to this ports means that playback is interrupted while browsing the library and practically not possible to use resampling. Any suggestions as to the cause? Is it different in newer copies of the RPi 4B?

[Tim Curtis]

The symptoms below suggest something external to moOde software for example a bad uSD card, network issue, hardware issue etc.

Code:

"Even a mouse stick causes a practical loss of responsiveness. Connecting mass storage to this ports means that playback is interrupted while browsing the library and practically not possible to use resampling."

To troubleshoot try an initial configuration:

1. Fresh moOde 8.3.3 64bit image
2. Known good uSD card
3. Ethernet connection
4. Power up and verify no issues

Then one at a time change the configuration for example switch to WiFi, add USB storage device, turn on resampling etc to see if any one change produces the the issue.

[STUDI]

The symptoms below suggest something external to moOde software for example a bad uSD card, network issue, hardware issue etc.

Code:

"Even a mouse stick causes a practical loss of responsiveness. Connecting mass storage to this ports means that playback is interrupted while browsing the library and practically not possible to use resampling."

To troubleshoot try an initial configuration:

1. Fresh moOde 8.3.3 64bit image
2. Known good uSD card
3. Ethernet connection
4. Power up and verify no issues

Then one at a time change the configuration for example switch to WiFi, add USB storage device, turn on resampling etc to see if any one change produces the the issue.

1. Fresh moOde 8.3.3 64bit image

This issue is version independent of Moodeaudio (say versions 7 up)


2. Known good uSD card

Checked, it is not related to the brand and the copy of the SD card. I've only been using SDXC cards recently, but this also happened with SDHC cards. Card manufacturers include Samsung, Sandisk.


3. Ethernet connection

Ethernet and basically the network interface has no effect. Only using anything connected to USB 3.0 ports generates a problem.


4. Power up and verify no issues

But the same devices (USB drive, mouse dongle) connected to USB 2.0 ports and the problem disappears. The current consumption is the same for these connected peripherals. 

Having had another DAC extension with a solid power jack, I could tell that in the absence of undervoltage detection, this issue still persists.

I'm leaning that it's a hardware problem in the Raspberry Pi itself, I only have a copy from the first series of the 4B model. Availability of the Raspberry PI is practically zero, the prices are close to the cost of buying a fanless PC and with it I get a disk interface, fast LAN, fast WiFi, fast USB.
The only downside to using a PC is that there is no Moodeadio release for the x64 platform. If it was, I would like to add that only support for USB DACs is enough.

[Nutul]

The symptoms below suggest something external to moOde software for example a bad uSD card, network issue, hardware issue etc.

Code:

"Even a mouse stick causes a practical loss of responsiveness. Connecting mass storage to this ports means that playback is interrupted while browsing the library and practically not possible to use resampling."

To troubleshoot try an initial configuration:

1. Fresh moOde 8.3.3 64bit image
2. Known good uSD card
3. Ethernet connection
4. Power up and verify no issues

Then one at a time change the configuration for example switch to WiFi, add USB storage device, turn on resampling etc to see if any one change produces the the issue.

1. Fresh moOde 8.3.3 64bit image

This issue is version independent of Moodeaudio (say versions 7 up)


2. Known good uSD card

Checked, it is not related to the brand and the copy of the SD card. I've only been using SDXC cards recently, but this also happened with SDHC cards. Card manufacturers include Samsung, Sandisk.


3. Ethernet connection

Ethernet and basically the network interface has no effect. Only using anything connected to USB 3.0 ports generates a problem.


4. Power up and verify no issues

But the same devices (USB drive, stick to mouse) connected to USB 2.0 ports and the problem disappears. The current consumption is the same for these connected peripherals. 

Having had another DAC extension with a solid power jack, I could tell that in the absence of undervoltage detection, this issue still persists.

I'm leaning that it's a hardware problem in the Raspberry Pi itself, I only have a copy from the first series of the 4B model. Availability of the Raspberry PI is practically zero, the prices are close to the cost of buying a fanless PC and with it I get a disk interface, fast LAN, fast WiFi, fast USB.
The only downside to using a PC is that there is no Moodeadio release for the x64 platform. If it was, I would like to add that only support for USB DACs is enough.

Could it be an incompatibility issue between the device's USB3 and the Pi USB3? I also have a Pi4, and I believe my version is 1.1, I have no problem connecting my external DAC to any of the USBs, be it 2 or 3.
If using the USB2 ports solves the issue, then be it, as getting a more recent Pi4, as you state, is out of discussion. AFAICT USB2 has no disadvantage for connecting a DAC...

[STUDI]

Unfortunately, there are only two USB 2.0 ports, I don't want to multiply devices, cables. This means that there is no need to connect a USB drive, USB DAC and mouse dongle (Moodeaudo with Local GUI via HDMI).

It is not entirely true that only USB 2.0 is enough for the DAC. Yes, for example, for the XMOS XU208 used in it, this is true, but for the newer ones, which allow for higher sampling rates (PCM and DSD), a USB 3.0 port would be needed.

[DRONE7]

This is a power supply problem well canvassed regarding Pi4.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=257220
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/co...e_causing/
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=248572


"The USB ports on the Raspberry Pi can only supply up to 1.2A from all 4 ports combined (with no per-port limits). That's not enough for two USB powered hard drives. You'll need to power at least one of the drives externally."

[STUDI]

This is a power supply problem well canvassed regarding Pi4.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=257220
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/co...e_causing/
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=248572


"The USB ports on the Raspberry Pi can only supply up to 1.2A from all 4 ports combined (with no per-port limits). That's not enough for two USB powered hard drives. You'll need to power at least one of the drives externally."

Bad suggestion. All you need is the mouse dongle itself. Inserted into USB 2.0 ports, no slowdown, but inserted into a USB 3.0 port, we immediately have a slowdown, and in the case of a mouse, it makes the GUI practically unusable. As a pendrive (32GB, Sandisk, standard an nano model) as mass storage, identical behavior. Of course, it's the same only for the USB SSD itself (no udervoltage warnings). There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

Two devices, pendrive and DAC Topping D10s, as long as they are connected to USB 2.0 ports, we have normal correct operation. But it is enough that only one of them (no matter which one) is plugged into the USB 3.0 port and the work of the Raspberry Pi is slowed down. There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

The pendrive (and mouse dongle) does not draw more than 1.2A of current from the USB port (just to clarify: no other peripherals connected to the USB ports).



I only see 2 possibilities:

1) A construction error in this initial 4B Raspberry Pi series that interferes with the software (kernel, drivers) which manifests itself in slowdowns, many lags.

2) Damage to the Raspberry Pi I have that causes the software to behave this way.

I don't have a second Raspberry Pi, it's practically impossible to buy (out of stock) and even if they were available, they would be in a different hardware version.

I thought it was a known problem (hence the question here on the forum), testing with buying another (already more expensive) Raspberry Pi is not an optimal solution.

In some time I can do some tests with generating logs. But first, job gains priority.

[DRONE7]

This is a power supply problem well canvassed regarding Pi4.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=257220
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/co...e_causing/
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=248572


"The USB ports on the Raspberry Pi can only supply up to 1.2A from all 4 ports combined (with no per-port limits). That's not enough for two USB powered hard drives. You'll need to power at least one of the drives externally."

Bad suggestion. All you need is the mouse dongle itself. Inserted into USB 2.0 ports, no slowdown, but inserted into a USB 3.0 port, we immediately have a slowdown, and in the case of a mouse, it makes the GUI practically unusable. As a pendrive (32GB, Sandisk, standard an nano model) as mass storage, identical behavior. Of course, it's the same only for the USB SSD itself (no udervoltage warnings). There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

Two devices, pendrive and DAC Topping D10s, as long as they are connected to USB 2.0 ports, we have normal correct operation. But it is enough that only one of them (no matter which one) is plugged into the USB 3.0 port and the work of the Raspberry Pi is slowed down. There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

The pendrive (and mouse dongle) does not draw more than 1.2A of current from the USB port (just to clarify: no other peripherals connected to the USB ports).



I only see 2 possibilities:

1) A construction error in this initial 4B Raspberry Pi series that interferes with the software (kernel, drivers) which manifests itself in slowdowns, many lags.

2) Damage to the Raspberry Pi I have that causes the software to behave this way.

I don't have a second Raspberry Pi, it's practically impossible to buy (out of stock) and even if they were available, they would be in a different hardware version.

I thought it was a known problem (hence the question here on the forum), testing with buying another (already more expensive) Raspberry Pi is not an optimal solution.

In some time I can do some tests with generating logs. But first, job gains priority.

Bad reply ;-)
So have you ever connected a powered hub between any of these devices and the Pi ?
Have you examined the USB cables for current carrying capacity ?
Have you posted your power supply details for your Pi ?

[STUDI]

This is a power supply problem well canvassed regarding Pi4.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=257220
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/co...e_causing/
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=248572


"The USB ports on the Raspberry Pi can only supply up to 1.2A from all 4 ports combined (with no per-port limits). That's not enough for two USB powered hard drives. You'll need to power at least one of the drives externally."

Bad suggestion. All you need is the mouse dongle itself. Inserted into USB 2.0 ports, no slowdown, but inserted into a USB 3.0 port, we immediately have a slowdown, and in the case of a mouse, it makes the GUI practically unusable. As a pendrive (32GB, Sandisk, standard an nano model) as mass storage, identical behavior. Of course, it's the same only for the USB SSD itself (no udervoltage warnings). There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

Two devices, pendrive and DAC Topping D10s, as long as they are connected to USB 2.0 ports, we have normal correct operation. But it is enough that only one of them (no matter which one) is plugged into the USB 3.0 port and the work of the Raspberry Pi is slowed down. There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

The pendrive (and mouse dongle) does not draw more than 1.2A of current from the USB port (just to clarify: no other peripherals connected to the USB ports).



I only see 2 possibilities:

1) A construction error in this initial 4B Raspberry Pi series that interferes with the software (kernel, drivers) which manifests itself in slowdowns, many lags.

2) Damage to the Raspberry Pi I have that causes the software to behave this way.

I don't have a second Raspberry Pi, it's practically impossible to buy (out of stock) and even if they were available, they would be in a different hardware version.

I thought it was a known problem (hence the question here on the forum), testing with buying another (already more expensive) Raspberry Pi is not an optimal solution.

In some time I can do some tests with generating logs. But first, job gains priority.

Bad reply ;-)
So have you ever connected a powered hub between any of these devices and the Pi ?
Have you examined the USB cables for current carrying capacity ?
Have you posted your power supply details for your Pi ?

I am aware of the poor quality of USB cables (significant voltage drops resulting from small cross-sections of wires, even in very expensive and supposedly high-quality USB cables). I used the HAT DAC extension with a 5.5/2.1 power socket plus a homemade power cable, e.g. from a power bank (1.5mm2 wire cross-section). There were no significant voltage drops that would have triggered an undervoltage warning (4.85 - 4.9V on power socket in Raspberry Pi system).

I am an electronics engineer by passion, so the problem of the quality of the USB cable is too well known to me (once I needed to power the PLC with HMI from powerbank - to support the creation of the program, they will be somewhere outside the house, so I reworked this topic and the conclusion was to make USB cables as power cables myself).

[DRONE7]

This is a power supply problem well canvassed regarding Pi4.
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=257220
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/co...e_causing/
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=248572


"The USB ports on the Raspberry Pi can only supply up to 1.2A from all 4 ports combined (with no per-port limits). That's not enough for two USB powered hard drives. You'll need to power at least one of the drives externally."

Bad suggestion. All you need is the mouse dongle itself. Inserted into USB 2.0 ports, no slowdown, but inserted into a USB 3.0 port, we immediately have a slowdown, and in the case of a mouse, it makes the GUI practically unusable. As a pendrive (32GB, Sandisk, standard an nano model) as mass storage, identical behavior. Of course, it's the same only for the USB SSD itself (no udervoltage warnings). There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

Two devices, pendrive and DAC Topping D10s, as long as they are connected to USB 2.0 ports, we have normal correct operation. But it is enough that only one of them (no matter which one) is plugged into the USB 3.0 port and the work of the Raspberry Pi is slowed down. There are no network connections for this case (Local GUI).

The pendrive (and mouse dongle) does not draw more than 1.2A of current from the USB port (just to clarify: no other peripherals connected to the USB ports).



I only see 2 possibilities:

1) A construction error in this initial 4B Raspberry Pi series that interferes with the software (kernel, drivers) which manifests itself in slowdowns, many lags.

2) Damage to the Raspberry Pi I have that causes the software to behave this way.

I don't have a second Raspberry Pi, it's practically impossible to buy (out of stock) and even if they were available, they would be in a different hardware version.

I thought it was a known problem (hence the question here on the forum), testing with buying another (already more expensive) Raspberry Pi is not an optimal solution.

In some time I can do some tests with generating logs. But first, job gains priority.

Bad reply ;-)
So have you ever connected a powered hub between any of these devices and the Pi ?
Have you examined the USB cables for current carrying capacity ?
Have you posted your power supply details for your Pi ?

I am aware of the poor quality of USB cables (significant voltage drops resulting from small cross-sections of wires, even in very expensive and supposedly high-quality USB cables). I used the HAT DAC extension with a 5.5/2.1 power socket plus a homemade power cable, e.g. from a power bank (1.5mm2 wire cross-section). There were no significant voltage drops that would have triggered an undervoltage warning (4.85 - 4.9V on power socket in Raspberry Pi system).

I am an electronics engineer by passion, so the problem of the quality of the USB cable is too well known to me (once I needed to power the PLC with HMI from powerbank - to support the creation of the program, they will be somewhere outside the house, so I reworked this topic and the conclusion was to make USB cables as power cables myself).

Whoa..wind that back a bit ..."HAT DAC extension "  ??  seems there are several peripheral interactions here with unreported hardware.
Suggest you post a full summary of your Pi and all its attendant hardware...otherwise we just keep trying to troubleshoot on the basic system.