[PROBLEM] RPi 4b connected via I2S to SABRE ES9038Q2M DAC POPs at manual Track Change

[AudioFool77]

Thanks guys for your comments and thoughts.


This with the different samplerate was also my first thougt, but as I said, sometimes I have the Issue, some times not.
The bad thing it does not matter if I change to a song with the same samplerate or a different one.

I addressed the Issue to the manufacturer, but no feedback yet.... Not a good sign 
On the other hand, this DAC has pretty many positive Reviews on the sellers page....

I´ll study also the about 580 pages at diyaudio.com - yuhuuuu

[DRONE7]

@vinnn  comment re 'USB is a asynchronous data interface' is pertinent..

I do not see that the board has a USB input though you would be able to add one using an xmos USB to i2s.

https://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/...f-pcb.html

This works on all my Es90x8 boards for click free operation ;-)

Your current ES9038q2m hardware is for voltage drive output from the Ess chip.
A step up in performance is to use current drive...the thread you referenced has much discussion on this.

This Es9028q2m board using current drive (note the 4 opamps vs 1 on your board) bests my Es9038q2m (using voltage) drive easily
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembled-ES902...2680864677

Another alternative if you wish to maintain an i2s connection chain rather than USB is a hardware resampler..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AK4137-I2S-DSD-...SwUPZbNPYv

[CallMeMike]

Thanks guys for your comments and thoughts.
..................... snip  ..............................

I´ll study also the about 580 pages at diyaudio.com - yuhuuuu

... what's not to like, 'War and Peace' size, full-on action, plenty of pictures

[DRONE7]

Thanks guys for your comments and thoughts.
..................... snip  ..............................

I´ll study also the about 580 pages at diyaudio.com - yuhuuuu

... what's not to like, 'War and Peace' size, full-on action, plenty of pictures

Plot almost non-existent, chapters in no particular order, main protagonists come and go at random, and so many addendum's and footnotes that a month of Sundays would not be sufficient to catalogue.  Otherwise, an entertaining read..

[mtnbrit]

This particular issue "audio glitch on stop/start" has been around for years and I think a couple of players for example Squeezelight have a workaround option to always keep the audio output open but this prevents other applications from using it.

In moOde for example such an option in MPD would prevent the other audio renderers including Bluetooth, Airplay, Spotify from working. IIRC the MPD maintainer also holds that audio players should release the output when they are not playing to allow other applications to use it.

I would like to propose implementing this "exclusive mode" as an option for those affected by these glitches and who dont need these other renderers?

[Tim Curtis]

You would need to propose the change to the MPD maintainer by posting an issue in the MPD Git repo. If you can make a good case for the change, it might get implemented. https://github.com/MusicPlayerDaemon/MPD/issues

[AudioFool77]

I could make some more Tests, also with my second DUAL ES9038 PRO DAC Board https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000570045834.html ....
What should I say, when I connect it also directly to the I2S Connection, it has exactly the same Problem

When I connect both boards via the USB Digital Interface Board, https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000715894190.html the Problem is gone….
So I expect not that there is a "Hardware" Issue on all Chinese ALI Express boards, so Maybe it is something else.

Because I Always used the big board with the USB Interface, I didn´t recognise that there is the same Issue using it via I2S on RPi with moode audio...

I tested it also with different RPi4s / MoodeAudio 6.5.2 and 6.7.1 / different Powersupplies / cables…. no matther - no Change

I found out when ever the Pops happens, the Display jumps not to "NoLock" but to one wrong Codec.

Good case / no Pop: Trackchange -> Display Shows short "NoLock" than the Right codec and Plays next song smoothly…

I can use the same Scenario with the same Songs for a second try:
Bad Case / two Pops: Trackchange -> Display Shows short a wrong Codec / Pops, than the Right codec and Plays the next song smoothly…

So for my Point of view it would be really strange the to total different boards will have on and the same Hardware issue?!
And why is it working periodicly and then not. A Hardware Problem is in my eyes permanent?

Thanks all

[vinnn]

I'll again add this is just a symptom of the design of the DAC board. It's not the actual ESS 90382 DA converter chip, there's more to a DAC unit/board than the DA converter chip. I have a Topping D50s which has dual ESS 90382QM DA converters and there's no jitter noises when rates change either via USB or via the optical & coax inputs.

It'll happen periodically because when you play a playlist of digital audio files at one rate (16bit 44KHz PCM for example) then the DAC's clock is synced at the beginning and is locked to that rate throughout that playback session, if the source then changes to a different rate then the clock is resynced to operate at the new rate, this is when you're hearing this reclock, the audible jitter you're hearing is the period where the DAC is operating out-of-sync with the source. Many modern DACs automatically silence such jitter noise when the clock is not locked, for those DACs that do not silence such noise there are SPDIF reclocker devices that can help.

As I touched upon in an earlier comment USB is different to SPDIF interfaces as USB is a asynchonous (two-way) data communication interface which is managed by a device driver on the source and dedicated chip on the DAC, the source knows what the DAC is capable of and negotiation occures between the source's driver and the DAC.
SPDIF is one way communication standard, e.g. the source sends a signal out of it's SPDIF interface, whatever is connected at the other end of that interface is unknown, the receiver just deals with what it receives.
If these boards of yours work OK with USB I'd suggest using USB.

[CallMeMike]

... as the man says (@vinnn )

@AudioFool77 ... what about upsampling in SoX to the highest level file/directory only library option allowed by the DAC board in use? The DAC board will be 'served' with the same sample rate digital files hence no room for re-syncing errors caused by bad board design and/or doubtful components.

[AudioFool77]

Thanks guys,
I think I wrote already, that it is not just a Problem of different bit Depth or framerate....

It also happens when I Change tracks with the same samplerate and so on....
And also it not happens when I Change between Songs with different file types.

CallMeMike I seems that the Clock needs to be "resynced" some time, so the SOX Upsampling didn´t Change something as described before.

The strange Thing is still, that the Pops never happens if it follows the Playlist (no Manual interaction), no matter if the filetype changes and that makes me skeptical…
Why it Needs no "poping" re-sync here?

Would be nice to share the experience with people using one of these or similar boards.

However, I ordered another USB Interface Adapter for my second DAC....

Just to get a Picture of what I´m talking about, here a private Youtube link to my example Video.

https://youtu.be/qIcS18MpLLE

I´ll delete the Video soon again, because I´ll not get Copyright Issues.

As you see, the Pops come and go, Always with the same Songs.... I used in this case SOX upscaling...