[PROBLEM] old deleted genre tags appear in Moode 7.

[Dig-It]

old deleted genre tags appear in Moode 7.

After days of searching all forums, also MP3TAG, deleting files with wrong genre tags, renaming quite a bunch of files without any success, I read this:

10-06-2020, 11:30 PM

The 6.7.1 Library only picks up the last occurrence of a given tag if there are multiples. The Library in upcoming moOde 7 will pick up multiple Genre tags and we are looking at doing same for multiples of Artist, Composer, Performer but those enhancements may not make it into the initial 7 release.

My opinion is, that Moode must have an option to delete this multiple genre tags.

[TheOldPresbyope]

@Dig-It 

I'm sorry, but I've read this post several times and I am still confused by

1) "old deleted genre tags appear in Moode 7." What old deleted genre tags are you talking about and where do they appear in moOde 7?

2) "Moode must have an option to delete this multiple genre tags." A possible interpretation is that one should have the option in moOde 7 to revert to the moOde 6 behavior and pick up only the last occurrence of a given tag. Is this what you mean?

If in the end the problem is simply that moOde 7 does not present your music tracks the way you expect it should then you can always zip up an album or two, put the zip files somewhere accessible like DropBox, and send PMs to Tim and me containing links to the files and a brief explanation of what you expect. But let's discuss the issue here first.

Regards,
Kent

[Dig-It]

TheOldPresbyope pid='29140' dateline='1610331002']     @Dig-It 

I'm sorry, but I've read this post several times and I am still confused by

1) "old deleted genre tags appear in Moode 7." What old deleted genre tags are you talking about and where do they appear in moOde 7?

2) "Moode must have an option to delete this multiple genre tags." A possible interpretation is that one should have the option in moOde 7 to revert to the moOde 6 behavior and pick up only the last occurrence of a given tag. Is this what you mean?

If in the end the problem is simply that moOde 7 does not present your music tracks the way you expect it should then you can always zip up an album or two, put the zip files somewhere accessible like DropBox, and send PMs to Tim and me containing links to the files and a brief explanation of what you expect. But let's discuss the issue here first.

Regards,
Kent

Hello Kent,
the files appear correct in the given genre, but are also creating new genres, like Unknown, rock, folk and there is also a ®@ as a artist, which is also correct given in artist as Jimi Hendrix.

[the_bertrum]

You appear to be saying that you have tracks with more than one genre and/or more than one artist in their tags and that some of those genre and artist tags are incorrect. Previously moOde would have hidden these from you because it could only cope with one entry in genre and artist. The fix is to remove the incorrect tags from your music collection with an external tagging utility.

Now, since the thread title suggests "old deleted...appear", I'm further guessing that you have attempted to delete these tags and yet still see them in the library in moOde. If so, try menu/configure/library/"clear library tag cache". Or the nuclear option of "Regenerate Music Library".

[TheOldPresbyope]

@Dig-It 

the_bertrum's answer is spot on.

Let me add just a couple of points because they've cropped up with other users' problems in the past:

• moOde knows only the metadata MPD tells it, and MPD knows only the metadata it finds in the audio files when it updates/regenerates the library.
  
• tools like Mp3tag frequently mislead users because they try to make all metadata schemes appear to be the same. They're great tools but it's not easy to understand their configuration options and it's extraordinarily difficult to get them to show the actual content of a file's metadata container(s).
  

If you follow the_bertrum's good advice and yet still have an album you know for sure is not being presented in moOde the way you expect even though it looks ok in your metadata editor, I'm willing to look at it and I believe so is Tim.

Regards,
Kent

[Dig-It]

@Dig-It 

the_bertrum's answer is spot on.

Let me add just a couple of points because they've cropped up with other users' problems in the past:

• moOde knows only the metadata MPD tells it, and MPD knows only the metadata it finds in the audio files when it updates/regenerates the library.
  
• tools like Mp3tag frequently mislead users because they try to make all metadata schemes appear to be the same. They're great tools but it's not easy to understand their configuration options and it's extraordinarily difficult to get them to show the actual content of a file's metadata container(s).
  

If you follow the_bertrum's good advice and yet still have an album you know for sure is not being presented in moOde the way you expect even though it looks ok in your metadata editor, I'm willing to look at it and I believe so is Tim.

Regards,
Kent

Thanks for your interest in my problem!
I'm looking further and removed m2u and cue files in the album containers, this helps a lot!
In Moode 6 it is ignored and in Moode 7 it is examined, is that right?
I'll send a couple of files about the "unknown" and cryptic file nam of the artist.
And again, thanks for the interest, I'm a Moodeaudio lover and go only for the best!

[TheOldPresbyope]

@Dig-It 

Ok, I examined the files you made available to me privately, but I thought I'd post my findings here so others can comment as they see fit.

1. the "unknown" genre - in this instance for a Klaus Schulze album

Actually this is tied in with the apparent presence of the same album twice in the album column with slightly different titles. One has album art and the other does not.

What's in the album directory

- a single FLAC file containing all the tracks on the CD and one metadata block for the CD, which includes an embedded jpg image of the cover
- a CUE  file containing the tracklist for this FLAC file, with each track identified by title, performer, and start/stop indicies. There is no other metadata associated with this file and no cover image.

So, the FLAC file appears as one entry in the album column. Here's metadata extracted from the output obtained running the mediainfo command on the file:

Code:

Album                                    : Royal Festival Hall CD1
Album/Performer                          : Klaus Schulze
Part                                     : 01
Track name                               : 1 flac
Performer                                : Klaus Schulze
Composer                                 : Klaus Schulze
Genre                                    : Electronic
Recorded date                            : 1992
Cover                                    : Yes
Cover type                               : Cover (front)
Cover MIME                               : image/jpeg

This album has only one track with the track name shown.

However, the CUE file also appears as one entry in the album column. It has no cover image so none appears. Thanks to MPD the track list is parsed and all the tracks appear along with their name and performer. The CUE file does not identify genre, which results in the "Unknown" entry which appears in the genre list and which selects the CUE file entry in the album column.

Note 1: The two entries have slightly different titles because the CUE file contains one name and the FLAC file metadata contains another.

Note 2 - I just did an experiment. I inserted "REM GENRE Electronic" as the first line of the CUE file and updated the moOde library. Now there is no "Unknown" genre entry and the two "albums" both are selected by "Electronic". (This experiment does not work if the line reads "GENRE Electronic".)

I personally have no CD-length FLAC files and associated CUE files in my collection but I understand why folks use them. I don't know how much work it would take to modify MPD to recognize that each pair is in fact a single album. I get the impression that most folks break them up into individual track files.

2. The cryptic artist name - in this instance for two Jimi Hendrix tracks

These are MP3 files, each with ID3v2.3 metadata

It turns out that the cryptic second artist is a result of 1) odd metadata in the files and b) the way moOde 7 deals with multiple values of certain tags (here I use "tag" in the same sense that MPD does).

Once again, here's metadata extracted from the output obtained running the mediainfo command on one of the files

Code:

Album                                    : The Ultimate Experience [Remastered]
Album/Performer                          : Jimi Hendrix
Track name                               : All Along the Watchtower
Track name/Position                      : 01
Compilation                              : Yes
Performer                                : Jimi Hendrix
Original/Performer                       : Jimi Hendrix
Composer                                 : Bob Dylan
Encoded by                               : © ¤ @
Remixed by                               : © ¤ @
Publisher                                : MCA Records
Genre                                    : Pop
Recorded date                            : 2011
Writing library                          : LAME3.82
Cover                                    : Yes
Cover type                               : Cover (front)
Cover MIME                               : image/jpg
Lyrics                                   : © ¤ @
...

Apparently MPD is returning one or both of the "Encoded by" and "Remixed by" values and moOde 7 is considering them to be more performers. Yes, the cryptic entries in these files are screwy, but I'm of the opinion that "Encoded by" and "Remixed by" represent product staff, not performers, anyway.

Just my two cents worth.

Note to @Dig-It: moOde includes the command line tool mediainfo which can tell you a lot. You have to be careful interpreting the names of metadata entries because this tool tries too hard to make all metadata schemas look the same. Similarly you have to be careful interpreting the result when there are multiple entries of a given name because it has a habit of concatenating the values.

Regards,
Kent

[the_bertrum]

Apparently MPD is returning one or both of the "Encoded by" and "Remixed by" values and moOde 7 is considering them to be more performers. Yes, the cryptic entries in these files are screwy, but I'm of the opinion that "Encoded by" and "Remixed by" represent product staff, not performers, anyway.

The new "multiple values" code for Artist does suck in an enormous number of fields, in this case I think it is the "remixed by". It is probably valid since in some genres, the performers are less important than the name of the guy that mixed their work into the new banging dance groove that you are gyrating to. My personal way of coping with this is to expunge all mention of artists other than those in "Artist", "AlbumArtist" and "Composer" in my collection. That's enough for me, other folk need way more.

[TheOldPresbyope]

Apparently MPD is returning one or both of the "Encoded by" and "Remixed by" values and moOde 7 is considering them to be more performers. Yes, the cryptic entries in these files are screwy, but I'm of the opinion that "Encoded by" and "Remixed by" represent product staff, not performers, anyway.

The new "multiple values" code for Artist does suck in an enormous number of fields, in this case I think it is the "remixed by".  It is probably valid since in some genres, the performers are less important than the name of the guy that mixed their work into the new banging dance groove that you are gyrating to.  My personal way of coping with this is to expunge all mention of artists other than those in "Artist", "AlbumArtist" and "Composer" in my collection.  That's enough for me, other folk need way more.

Yeah, I get that. My favorite genres---classical and jazz in their broadest senses---have their own conventions too.

Trouble is, there's no structure to the metadata so there's no way of knowing the intent of the person/program which generated the values. We're left to make all sorts of inferences, not as bad, perhaps, as early archeologists trying to interpret hieroglyphics, but a lot worse than it has to be.

My personal way is the same as yours.

Regards,
Kent

[the_bertrum]

not as bad, perhaps, as early archeologists trying to interpret hieroglyphics, but a lot worse than it has to be.

Pity the archaeologist of the future who has decipher the SSD!

My personal way is the same as yours.

That's because we are both fine fellows!